[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?

[Eugene Zhulenev via llvm-dev]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:20 PM Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

> On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote:
>
>
> Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists,
> because you use 'master' word"
> Or broader: "You  all developers are all racists, because you use 'master'
> word". We are not racists, but other guys think so.
> So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages.
> Not only Americans.
>
> Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave.
> https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0
>
> If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account
> all nations and languages!
> You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia
> leaving a Job could mean Slave
>
> Being a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the
> language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather strange...
>
> The word "Работа" in Russian does not have any despising semantical
> connotation derived from slavery.
> It is easy to figure out just by reading the part of the page you quoted
> named "Семантические свойства" (semantical characteristics).
> It is all about work, job, labor, creativity (and a science term). No
> single mention of slavery or forced labor.
>

According to https://thequestion.ru/questions/317780 and
http://www.slovorod.ru/etym-chernykh/_pdf/russ-hist-etym-chernykh-2.pdf
"работа"
(job/work) is indeed ~= "рабство" (slavery) in ancient russian (11th
century).


>
> "Root" is just the origin where the word started from, perhaps centuries
> ago. It is quite common that words do change their meaning
> through these centuries.
>

However I discovered this fact 5 minutes ago, and no one associates these
two words together in the 21st century.


>
> If you take a look at all the words that have "-раб-" root in it you will
> find:
>   раз-раб-отчик == developer
>   раз-раб-отка == development
>   об-раб-отка == handling
> etc
>
> I would prefer to be allowed to do my job and be proud of it, and to call
> my fellow developers - developers.
>
> thank you very much,
>   Fedor.
>
> --
> Best wishes,
> Ivan Kush
>
>
>
> 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org>
> <clattner at nondot.org>:
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> Here we've began discussion about "master"
> https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html
>
> Lets remove Job word completely
>
> But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
> for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий".
> Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
> As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
> check, literally translates to "slave".
> To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin.
>
>
> We have many uses of Job word
> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job
>
> Hi Ivan,
>
> Thank you for raising this issue.  I haven’t heard much industry consensus
> that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering
> such a change?
>
> I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be
> translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad
> to be useful.  The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations.
>
> -Chris
>
>
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