<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 3:20 PM Fedor Sergeev via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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On 6/21/20 10:41 PM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div>Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all
racists, because you use 'master' word"</div>
<div>Or broader: "You all developers are all racists, because you
use 'master' word". We are not racists, but other guys think so.</div>
<div>So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations
and languages. Not only Americans.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave.</div>
<div><a href="https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0" target="_blank">https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take
into account all nations and languages!</div>
<div>You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but
in Russia leaving a Job could mean Slave</div>
</blockquote>
Being a native Russian and being kinda proud of my feeling of the
language, I find this statement (Job could mean Slave) rather
strange...<br>
<br>
The word "Работа" in Russian does not have any despising semantical
connotation derived from slavery.<br>
It is easy to figure out just by reading the part of the page you
quoted named "Семантические свойства" (semantical characteristics).<br>
It is all about work, job, labor, creativity (and a science term).
No single mention of slavery or forced labor.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>According to <a href="https://thequestion.ru/questions/317780">https://thequestion.ru/questions/317780</a> and <a href="http://www.slovorod.ru/etym-chernykh/_pdf/russ-hist-etym-chernykh-2.pdf">http://www.slovorod.ru/etym-chernykh/_pdf/russ-hist-etym-chernykh-2.pdf</a> "работа" (job/work) is indeed ~= "рабство" (slavery) in ancient russian (11th century).</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
"Root" is just the origin where the word started from, perhaps
centuries ago. It is quite common that words do change their meaning<br>
through these centuries.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>However I discovered this fact 5 minutes ago, and no one associates these two words together in the 21st century.</div><div> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
If you take a look at all the words that have "-раб-" root in it you
will find:<br>
раз-раб-отчик == developer<br>
раз-раб-отка == development<br>
об-раб-отка == handling<br>
etc<br>
<br>
I would prefer to be allowed to do my job and be proud of it, and to
call my fellow developers - developers.<br>
<br>
thank you very much,<br>
Fedor.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>-- <br>
Best wishes,</div>
<div>Ivan Kush</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner"
<a href="mailto:clattner@nondot.org" target="_blank"><clattner@nondot.org></a>:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev
<<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>Here we've began discussion about "master"</div>
<div><a href="https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html" target="_blank">https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Lets remove Job word completely</div>
<div>
<pre>But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий".
Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
check, literally translates to "slave".
To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin.
</pre>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>We have many uses of Job word</div>
<div><a href="https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job" target="_blank">https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>Hi Ivan,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thank you for raising this issue. I haven’t heard much
industry consensus that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are
there other communities considering such a change?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that
can be translated to an unfortunate term in another
language” could be too broad to be useful. The discussion
around “master" isn’t related to translations.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-Chris</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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