[llvm-dev] [cfe-dev] Mailing List Status Update

Aaron Ballman via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Thu Jun 24 04:19:22 PDT 2021

On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 2:29 AM Tobias Hieta via llvm-dev
<llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> > Well, it's not surprising that people who use Discord don't propose the use of IRC (and vice versa), but this doesn't make the community less fractured.
> No I am not surprised about that - but the original message I replied
> to made it seem like there was huge confusion and people where sent
> back and forth between IRC and discord and that was what I wanted to
> point out is not really happening.

"is not really happening" -- I'm on IRC every day as a moderator and
I'd say this happens on the IRC side of things at least once or twice
a week. Perhaps you meant to say it's not really happening on Discord?

I think this could be a demonstration that the culture of the
community is being impacted by the fracturing. When people come to
IRC, moderators and other users will point out that discord and the
mailing lists are places where someone can also attempt to get an
answer if they don't find it on IRC. (Telling users to ask on the
mailing lists if no one has an answer on IRC has been the status quo
since I joined the community, so this isn't a new practice.) Users
respond by saying thanks and often following that advice. It sounds
like on Discord, users who don't find an answer to their question
maybe aren't being told about the other options? If so, this is a
demonstration of *why* I'm concerned about further fracturing the


> > The main objective of the list is to discuss the project, long and hard issues, and both old and new people can use mailing lists with pretty much any mail client out there.
> >
> > If the argument to move to Discourse is because it's better for long and hard discussions for the majority of the community, then that's a clear signal.
> I think this is important as well and from my point of view Discourse
> is much better for long discussions:
> * Code formatting is easy and much better than in any email
> integration I have seen.
> * Threading is more obvious and easier to follow
> * No problems with "top posting" and replying to a single person
> instead of the full list.
> * Moderation tools were already touched on - but since I don't
> moderate the mailing list I don't want to comment on it too much.
> > If it's just because it's where all the cool kids are these days, then I think we're looking for the wrong goals.
> >
> > 5 years ago, all cool kids (*) were using Slack, now they're using Discourse / Discord, who knows where they'll all be in 5 years time?
> >
> > I don't think popularity should be a factor in choosing a new tool, or we'll be eternally chasing doomed platforms.
> I 100% agree, but we also shouldn't turn down a better/more accessible
> alternative just because of inertia either.
> I am not making a cool kids argument here, I can't in fact claim to be
> a cool kid since I still program in C++.
> -- Tobias
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