[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `job` in source code?

[Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev]

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 12:42 PM Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

>
> Yes, broad. But what guys say: "You LLVM developers are all racists,
> because you use 'master' word"
> Or broader: "You  all developers are all racists, because you use 'master'
> word". We are not racists, but other guys think so.
>

Since I started the thread on our "master" branch name, I'd like to clarify
that I didn't intend it the way you're putting it: I don't consider that
developers who are using "master" for their branch, and will continue to do
so, are just "racist" because of that.

However I can understand that using such metaphors or analogies in our
language, however accurate they are, can make other people uncomfortable.
So, another way to see it is not about us stopping using this word because
other people think it makes us racists, instead it is about not *forcing
other* potential contributors and fellow developers to use such terms to be
able to contribute to the project.
I posted this link
<https://dev.to/afrodevgirl/replacing-master-with-main-in-github-2fjf>
originally where the author wrote:

> using the term master to define the default source of truth in my repos
has always caused me pain

They don't accuse you or me of being racist, they don't talk about anyone
else other than themselves here.

So I choose to listen to them, to empathize, and recognize that at minima:

1) there are actually better and more accurate terms for the concept
described ("main", "default", ...)
2) it is "relatively cheap" to change.

On the other hand, I don't see much reason to not do it (do you?).

So let's begin consistent and take into account all nations and languages.
> Not only Americans.
>

As a European, I'm sensitive to the "american centric" view that is taken
of many of these topics by the way. Also the use of English as the common
language makes it maybe too easy to under-estimate the cultural differences.


>

> Работа/Job contains a root Раб/Slave.
> https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0
>
> If we want completely eradicate a word Slave we should take into account
> all nations and languages!
> You say that removing 'master' you won't mention Slave, but in Russia
> leaving a Job could mean Slave
>

I'm not sure using the etymology of the translation of an English word to
reflect on the English word is entirely straightforward to me.
More importantly, in general I would personally start by looking into the
alternatives here: what is the word used for in the project and do we have
a more neutral/descriptive term to describe a concept. I'd advise you to
follow Eric's advice on the topic.

Best,

-- 
Mehdi




> --
> Best wishes,
> Ivan Kush
>
>
>
> 21.06.2020, 22:01, "Chris Lattner" <clattner at nondot.org>:
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2020, at 4:49 AM, Ivan Kush via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> Here we've began discussion about "master"
> https://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2020-June/142448.html
>
> Lets remove Job word completely
>
> But as one can easily fact-check, in Russian (slavic?) language,
> for example, the word "Worker" can be translated as "Работник", "Рабочий".
> Similarly the word "Job" can be translated as "Работа".
> As you may notice, they all contain "Раб", which, as you can easily
> check, literally translates to "slave".
> To Russian people it doesn't seem very inclusive use words with such dubious origin.
>
>
> We have many uses of Job word
> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/search?q=job&unscoped_q=job
>
> Hi Ivan,
>
> Thank you for raising this issue.  I haven’t heard much industry consensus
> that the word ‘job’ is a problem - are there other communities considering
> such a change?
>
> I’m concerned that a policy around “any English word that can be
> translated to an unfortunate term in another language” could be too broad
> to be useful.  The discussion around “master" isn’t related to translations.
>
> -Chris
>
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