[cfe-dev] [llvm-dev] Should isnan be optimized out in fast-math mode?

Thu Sep 16 23:18:52 PDT 2021

On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 10:53 AM Mehdi AMINI <joker.eph at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 8:23 PM Serge Pavlov via cfe-dev <
> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 3:11 AM Chris Tetreault <ctetreau at quicinc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The difference there is that doing pointer arithmetic on null pointers
>>> doesn't *usually* work, unless you turn on -ffast-pointers.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that  most confusion related to -ffast-math is likely
>>> caused by people who are transitioning to using it. I have some codebase,
>>> and I turn on fast math, and then a few months down the road I notice a
>>> strangeness that I did not catch during the initial transition period. If
>>> you're writing new code with fast-math, you don't do things like try to use
>>> NaN as a sentinel value in a TU with fast math turned on. This is the sort
>>> of thing you catch when you try to transition an existing codebase. Forgive
>>> me for the uncharitable interpretation, but it's much easier to ask the
>>> compiler to change to accommodate your use case than it is to refactor your
>>> code.
>>>
>>
>> It is a common way to explain problems with -ffinite-math-only by user
>> ignorance. However user misunderstandings and complaints may indicate a
>> flaw in compiler implementation, which I believe we have in this case.
>>
>> Using NaN as sentinels is a natural way when you cannot spend extra
>> memory for keeping flags for each item, spend extra cycles to read that
>> flag and do not want to pollute cache. It does not depend on reading
>> documentation or writing the code from scratch. It is simply the best
>> solution for storing data. If performance of the data processing is
>> critical, -ffast-math is a good solution. This is a fairly legitimate use
>> case. The fact that the compiler does not allow it is a compiler drawback.
>>
>>
>>> To me, I think Mehdi had the best solution: The algorithm that is the
>>> bottleneck, and experiences the huge speedup using fast-math should be
>>> separated into its own source file. This source file, and only this source
>>> file should be compiled with fast-math. The outer driver loop should not be
>>> compiled with fast math. This solution is clean, (probably) easy, and
>>> doesn't require a change in the compiler.
>>
>>
>> It is a workaround, it works in some cases but does not in others. ML
>> kernel often is a single translation unit, there may be no such thing as
>> linker for that processor. At the same time it is computation intensive and
>> using fast-math in it may be very profitable.
>>
>
> Switching mode in a single TU seems valuable, but could this be handled
> with pragmas or function attributes instead?
>

GCC allows it by using `#pragma GCC optimize()`, but clang does not support
it. No suitable function attribute exists for that.

>
>
>>
>>
>>> Changing the compiler is hard, affects everybody who uses the compiler,
>>> and creates inconsistency in behavior between clang and gcc (and msvc with
>>> /fp:fast), and clang and old versions of clang.
>>
>>
>> ICC and MSVC do not remove `isnan` in fast math mode. If `isnan` is
>> implemented in libc, it is also a real check. Actually removing `isnan`
>> creates inconsistency.
>>
>>
>>> The behavior of fast-math with respect to NaN is consistent across the
>>> mainstream c/c++ compilers: no promises are made, users should not assume
>>> that they can use it for anything. Changing it now would create a major
>>> portability issue for user codebases, which in and of itself is a very
>>> strong reason to not make this change.
>>>
>>
>> Removing `isnan` is only an optimization, it does not intend to change
>> semantics. So it cannot create portability issues. Quite the contrary, it
>> helps portability by making behavior consistent between compilers and libc
>> implementations. The only possible issue is performance loss, this is
>> discussed above, it is an unlikely case. Anyway, if such loss exists and it
>> is absolutely intolerable for a user, a hack with redefinition of `isnan`
>> restores the previous code generation.
>>
>>
>>> If the behavior is confusing to users, that's because it's poorly
>>> explained.
>>
>>
>> What is confusing? That the explicitly written call to a function is not
>> removed? According to user feedback it is the silent removal of `isnan`
>> that confuses users.
>>
>> Honestly, I think the docs are pretty clear, but "It's clear, you just
>>> need to learn to read" is never an acceptable answer so it could certainly
>>> be improved. This is the only thing that needs to be fixed in my opinion.
>>>
>>
>> The documentation says about -ffinite-math-only:
>>
>>  "Allow optimizations for floating-point arithmetic that assume that
>> arguments and results are not NaNs or +-Infs."
>>
>> Is it clear whether `isnan` is arithmetic or not?
>>
>
> If the result of a floating point arithmetic is fed directly to `isnan()`,
> are we allowed to eliminate the computation and fold the check to none?
> (seems like it according to the sentence you're quoting).
> Are we back to `isnan(x+0.0)` can be folded but not `isnan(x)`?
>

Initially there was such intention, but during the discussion it became
clear that it is not profitable. For `isinf` there is a realistic use case
when removing the call `isinf(a+b)` is an issue. Arthur O'Dwyer
demonstrated an example for `isnan`. It is harder to provide guarantees
about the result, than about the arguments.

> --
> Mehdi
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>    Chris Tetreault
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Kruse <cfe-dev at meinersbur.de>
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 12:29 PM
>>> To: Chris Tetreault <ctetreau at quicinc.com>
>>> Cc: Serge Pavlov <sepavloff at gmail.com>; llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org;
>>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>>> Subject: Re: [cfe-dev] [llvm-dev] Should isnan be optimized out in
>>> fast-math mode?
>>>
>>> WARNING: This email originated from outside of Qualcomm. Please be wary
>>> of any links or attachments, and do not enable macros.
>>>
>>> Am Mo., 13. Sept. 2021 um 11:46 Uhr schrieb Chris Tetreault via cfe-dev <
>>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org>:
>>> > As a user, if I read that:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ```
>>> >
>>> > if (isnan(x)) {
>>> >
>>> > ```
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > … is guaranteed to work, and I read that fast-math enables the
>>> compiler to reason about constructs like `x + 0` being equal to `x`, then
>>> I’m going to be very confused when:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ```
>>> >
>>> > if (isnan(x + 0)) {
>>> >
>>> > ```
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > … does not also work. I’m going to open a bug and complain, and the
>>> slide down the slippery slope will continue. You and I understand the
>>> difference, and the technical reason why `isnan(x)` is supported but
>>> `isnan(x + 0)` isn’t, but Joe Coder just trying to figure out why he’s got
>>> NaN in his matrices despite his careful NaN handling code. Joe is not a
>>> compiler expert, and on the face of it, it seems like a silly limitation.
>>> This will never end until fast-math is gutted.
>>>
>>> C/C++ already has cases like this. Pointer arithmetic on null pointers
>>> is undefined behaviour, even if adding[1,2]/subtracting[3] zero. I don't
>>> think it is too far fetched to expect from users to know that an operation
>>> is undefined behaviour even if one of the operands is zero.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/clang/test/Sema/pointer-addition.c
>>> [2]
>>> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/compiler-rt/test/ubsan/TestCases/Pointer/nullptr-and-nonzero-offset-constants.cpp
>>> [3]
>>> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/blob/main/clang/test/Sema/pointer-subtraction.c
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
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>
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