[llvm-dev] Resuming the discussion of establishing an LLVM code of conduct

Renato Golin via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Thu May 5 14:49:54 PDT 2016

On 5 May 2016 at 22:19, Tanya Lattner via llvm-dev
<llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> Having a code of conduct like this is just as bad as having no code of conduct at all. It trivializes the importance of a code of conduct and its pretty much impossible to enforce.

The same way you feel about this code, we feel about the alternative.
It's only a matter of perspective.

> After observing what is happening in many other communities in regards to women in technology, I would be much more likely to participate in a community that actually has a well thought out and meaningful code of conduct.

I think I have expressed enough of my desire to get women into STEM.
If not, let me reiterate: 50/50, nothing less will do.

However, I wonder how much of that has ever had the risk to leaking
into our community?

My argument to Hal is that, none of that happened overnight. For that
to happen to us, our community would have to be permissive to abusive
behaviour for months, or years, and we'd notice a lot sooner than

The worse cases I've seen was the kernel and docker, both fairly loose
communities, where it didn't seem to have *any* consensus on behaviour
whatsoever. We're not like that.

When kernel folks come to us and start swearing, we ask them to stop,
then we ignore their emails. That's better than and CoC could ever ask

So, here's a turn on the tables...

 * Can anyone prove that a CoC would be more effective against abuse
than the already very effective and cost free method we use?

 * Can anyone come up with a threat that the current consensus would
not protect us from, and at the same time, a CoC would be the *only*

 * Can anyone prove that, just writing "we don't condone abuse, let us
know" is in *any* way (including legal) worse than a text that was
written by someone else and people seemed to like?

Unless we have clear answers to those questions, Occam's razor tells
me we should just be our good selves and show people with behaviour,
not words, how nice we are.


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