[llvm-dev] Suggestion to Stop Cross Posting Discussions

C Bergström via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Mon Jul 11 16:06:22 PDT 2016

ffs - Would /you/ (more than 1) stop bikesheding everything to death and
just agree that a developer list should be for development only issues. Go
make noise on -commits


At this time - I have no mechanism to filter non-developer stuff.

If adding another list causes you great pain and suffering, maybe the
middle ground could be a hard enforcement of tagging the subject.

Any of the following may be appropriate:
Do any of "you" remember the mailing list policies from the 90's? Stuff
like top posting, trimming your post and actually treating everyone on the
like you would family. That's ideally how things should be. One big happy
family. Do one thing and do it well. The -dev list isn't a catch-all just
because it has the biggest impact for whatever trollbait of the day.

Outside of crying, has anyone raised a valid point against creating a
specialized list for -alt or -infra topics? Anyone who would want to vote
on project level impacting issues is free to subscribe there. Anyone not
subscribed would be equivalent to not registering to vote. (Thus I don't
see how it's a valid concern - it's not like the proposed list would be

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:43 AM, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 3:34 PM Chris Bieneman via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>> On Jul 8, 2016, at 9:55 PM, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev <
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:28 AM Renato Golin via llvm-dev <
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>>> On 7 July 2016 at 03:39, Chris Lattner <clattner at apple.com> wrote:
>>> > Sorry, I meant to say that issues like “move to github” would be on
>>> topic for the list.  The addition of a new mailing list certainly doesn’t
>>> affect how key decisions in the project are made.
>>> Perfect! I'm glad everyone is in agreement. I think it makes sense to
>>> move those things out of the dev list and to make it clear that, if
>>> you care about the project/s, you should be on that list. :)
>> FWIW, I'm not in agreement.
>> I think having yet another mailing list is a dramatically worse solution
>> than simply fixing our mailing list system to allow subscribers to any of
>> the lists post to all of the lists.
>> The big problem I see with this is you'd also need to modify the mailing
>> system to ensure that all replies on the thread CC the off-list people who
>> contribute to it. That gets really complicated when threads go through
>> renaming or get munged by mail clients not respecting MIME headers.
>> I think an "llvm-project" mailing list that implicitly includes everyone
>> on all the "*-dev" lists is a reasonably safe solution to the problem, even
>> if it does mean one more mailing list to filter.
> FWIW, having it automatically be the union of *-dev list members would
> somewhat reduce my concerns about "yet another mailing list". It would
> become just a mechanical way to simulate cross-posting.
> That said, I expect cross-posting to continue when there are issues of
> shared interest to a subset of the projects. The classical examples are
> clang/llvm interactions, but I can't imagine they're the only issues.
> So even if we have an llvm-project list or anything similar, I'd really
> love it if we could fix the immediate pain felt by admins in the face of
> cross-posting.
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