[llvm-dev] RFC: Deleting git-svn folder (git-llvm, git-svnrevert, git-svnup)

Tue May 12 15:13:36 PDT 2020

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:56 PM Johannes Doerfert <
johannesdoerfert at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> TBH, all I initially asked for, still ask for, is a reason why `git
> llvm` was being removed.

Fair enough - and 24 hours later no one had replied to your inquiry - I
don't think that's a huge deal, to be honest - I've certainly had to
follow-up with higher email latencies than that pretty regularly. Eric had
replied to someone else's question pretty reasonably "what do I use
instead?" "git push" (what most people have been using since the transition)

> Your email was the only one that hinted on a
> reason.
>

I think the original proposal & response covered that - they seem(ed) like
dead code ("My understanding of these tools is that they were useful for
when we were migrating between Git and SVN, but now, since the migration is
complete, they can be deleted as they are either unnecessary or there are
other more common workflow options (ie git llvm push --> git push).") -
some folks agreed, and time was given in case anyone had use cases they
wanted to bring up & didn't.

>
> (more below)
>
> On 5/12/20 4:00 PM, David Blaikie wrote:
>  > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:50 PM Johannes Doerfert via llvm-dev <
>  > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>  >
>  >> @Zola, Eric,
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> I really feel the communication and reasoning here is problematic.
>  >>
>  >> From my perspective, you removed stuff "we don't need", ignoring
> whether
>  >> it is used, and then let people figure out how to deal with the result.
>  >>
>  >> What I most dislike about the process most is how questions and
> concerns
>  >> are then ignored or played down.
>  >>
>  > Honestly, I think Zola did more than I'd have expected to be done for
> this
>  > - sending out the proposal (to llvm-dev, not just llvm-commits, even) &
>  > waiting a week for feedback.
>
> Sure. That is why I did not mention the process that lead to the situation.
> I think my email/questions are well in line with post-commit review
> standards but people seem to disagree.
>

I don't think your first email was unreasonable/not sure anyone's saying it
was unreasonable?

> > Suggesting that LLVM developers (the, apparently rather small (based on
>  > feedback from before/after this change) number of them) migrate to the
>  > standard git functionality for contributing to git projects seems
> like it's
>  > in line with discussions I recall seeing before and after the git
> migration
>  > - that the git-llvm scripts were migration tools (there was some
> discussion
>  > about whether they might be used for more post-migration, to enforce
>  > certain constraints, etc - but those ideas were not accepted/moved
> forward
>  > with).
>
> I recall no decision being made back in October 2019 and that we will
> see how it goes. Till now I thought it went fine, or at least I haven't
> understood what needed fixing.
>

I think the migration went fine, yes - but these scripts seem to me like a
vestige of the hybrid situation & no longer needed/especially beneficial.

> > I have some concern about adding these scripts back in as they may
> lead to
>  > greater divergence in developer experience and/or become less
> relevant over
>  > time and a weird thing for newcomers to stumble over, perhaps. But I
> don't
>  > feel /that/ strongly, if other folks particularly prefer using them,
> they
>  > seem mostly harmless.
>
> I don't think I understand your concerns. Could you elaborate what
> divergence you can see in the future? FWIW, if the scripts are broken
> and people stumble over them it means no one takes care of them and
> removal is adequate.
>

I'd generally prefer to remove things sooner rather than later, personally.
I believe some of the original motivation was an offline discussion about
adding more features (to trim unnecessary Phabricator fields, I believe) to
them & a response was that they're not really used/encouraged & so adding
features wouldn't be especially valuable - so the thought was to go the
other way, rather than keeping them around, and building processes that
might only work with the scripts & then being let down when those processes
aren't adhered to by most of the community (because they're not using the
scripts) it'd be better to remove them and standardize practices on the
plain git tools.

- Dave

>
>
> Thanks,
>    Johannes
>
>
>  > - Dave
>  >
>  >>
>  >> Thanks,
>  >>
>  >>   Johannes
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On 5/12/20 2:10 PM, Keane, Erich via llvm-dev wrote:
>  >>
>  >> FWIW, if you do your development in git-branches, it is a little
> more than that.  IT ends up being:
>  >>
>  >> git push origin HEAD:master.
>  >>
>  >> Which is somewhat easy to mess up.  For example, I inverted the
> HEAD/master at one point and ended up creating a branch named “HEAD” at
> one point.
>  >>
>  >> From: llvm-dev <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org>
> <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org> On Behalf Of Eric Christopher via
> llvm-dev
>  >> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 11:59 AM
>  >> To: Hiroshi Yamauchi <yamauchi at google.com> <yamauchi at google.com>
>  >> Cc: llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
>  >> Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] RFC: Deleting git-svn folder (git-llvm,
> git-svnrevert, git-svnup)
>  >>
>  >> Just push :)
>  >>
>  >> On Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:46 AM Hiroshi Yamauchi
> <yamauchi at google.com<mailto:yamauchi at google.com> <yamauchi at google.com>>
> wrote:
>  >> I was also using "git llvm push" to commit, sort of out of habit.
> What's a recommended, alternative way to push?
>  >>
>  >> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:57 AM Johannes Doerfert via llvm-dev
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org<mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>  >>
>  >> I was actually using `git llvm` in my daily workflow.
>  >>
>  >> Could you explain why we want people to move away from that script?
>  >>
>  >> In addition to the convenience, it prevented me from accidentally
> creating a new branch (which I did before with push once).
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Cheers,
>  >>
>  >>   Johannes
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On 5/11/20 11:43 AM, Zola Bridges via llvm-dev wrote:
>  >>
>  >> Deleted this morning. Thanks!
>  >>
>  >> Zola Bridges
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 2:35 PM Eric Christopher <echristo at gmail.com>
> <echristo at gmail.com><mailto:echristo at gmail.com> <echristo at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Giving at least one explicit:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Sounds good to me.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:01 PM Zola Bridges via llvm-dev <
>  >> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org<mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Here is a link to the patch: https://reviews.llvm.org/D79348
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Zola Bridges
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:50 AM Zola Bridges <zbrid at google.com>
> <zbrid at google.com><mailto:zbrid at google.com> <zbrid at google.com> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Hi everyone,
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> I would like to delete this folder of svn to git migration tools.
>  >> https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/tree/master/llvm/utils/git-svn
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> My understanding of these tools is that they were useful for when we
>  >>
>  >> were migrating between Git and SVN, but now, since the migration is
>  >>
>  >> complete, they can be deleted as they are either unnecessary or
> there are
>  >>
>  >> other more common workflow options (ie git llvm push --> git push).
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>    - Is there any reason these scripts should continue to exist that
>  >>
>  >>    I'm not aware of?
>  >>
>  >>    - I'd like to delete these next Monday. Is that timeline
>  >>
>  >>    unacceptable to anyone?
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Thanks,
>  >>
>  >> Zola Bridges
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >>
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>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
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