[llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename `master` branch?

Fri Jun 19 11:59:18 PDT 2020

I hear you.

I'll reach out and see what I can do :)

-eric

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:56 AM Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com> wrote:

> To be clear: I’m concerned about the amount of our infrastructure (as well
> as downstream infrastructure, this would be actually pretty painful for
> both of my downstreams) that the community would have break/need fixing as
> a part of that.  So I want this to happen ONCE.
>
>
>
> I think it is well motivated now, but switching from ‘default’ to ‘main’
> when that becomes the ‘standard’ one seems way less motivated.  So I just
> forsee it being a wart on the project for a very long time.
>
>
>
> That said, I’ve done a bit of research and the git mailing list thread (
> https://lore.kernel.org/git/CAOAHyQwyXC1Z3v7BZAC+Bq6JBaM7FvBenA-1fcqeDV==apdWDg@mail.gmail.com/#t)
> as well as just news reports about github, and they all seem to be
> converging on ‘main’, though I don’t have good insight into it.
>
>
>
> If ‘we’ as a community (and I think we do?) have a contact at github could
> ping someone and get a reasonably quick confirmation that they are
> switching to ‘main’, it would be appreciated/should guide our decision.
>
>
>
> *From:* llvm-dev <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org> *On Behalf Of *Keane,
> Erich via llvm-dev
> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:48 AM
> *To:* llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename
> `master` branch?
>
>
>
> My understanding is the biggest concern about the name change is the
> ‘cost’ associated with needing to update each of the individual buildbots
> (and my understanding is that this would be a somewhat non-centralized
> action) configurations.  So I think we’re talking about more than just 1
> person running the script in 10 minutes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Christopher <echristo at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:44 AM
> *To:* Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com>
> *Cc:* Petr Penzin <penzin.dev at gmail.com>; Mehdi AMINI <joker.eph at gmail.com>;
> llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename
> `master` branch?
>
>
>
> I mean, we could change it twice? There are about a hundred scripts out
> there for doing it.
>
>
>
> -eric
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:40 AM Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com>
> wrote:
>
> Do we have any ability to reach out to github (at least?) to see what they
> are going to do?  I’d very much like to avoid being the odd-project-out
> here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Christopher <echristo at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:32 AM
> *To:* Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com>
> *Cc:* Petr Penzin <penzin.dev at gmail.com>; Mehdi AMINI <joker.eph at gmail.com>;
> llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename
> `master` branch?
>
>
>
> There's really no guarantee that things will shake out the same in near
> term between the projects.
>
>
>
> -eric
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:31 AM Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com>
> wrote:
>
> I’m a bit mixed on this.  While yes, we should change this as soon as is
> practical, it would be a shame to pick something sufficiently different
> from the rest of the world, as that would be anti-inclusive (though in a
> technical way).  It would be REALLY good if we knew what github/git were
> GOING to name theirs and just do that as soon as possible.
>
>
>
> *From:* Eric Christopher <echristo at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:23 AM
> *To:* Petr Penzin <penzin.dev at gmail.com>; Mehdi AMINI <joker.eph at gmail.com
> >
> *Cc:* Keane, Erich <erich.keane at intel.com>; llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename
> `master` branch?
>
>
>
> While I appreciate this sentiment we should not block our changes on a
> project over which we have no control. Changing the name and the
> documentation is easy and we should do this today.
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -eric
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:49 AM Petr Penzin via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Git uses `master` branch in quite a few places in its docs and `git init`
> produces a `master` branch. ideally, a change to git should drive all of
> this - that way there would be no confusion.
>
> -Petr
>
>
>
> On 6/19/20 10:45 AM, Keane, Erich via llvm-dev wrote:
>
> I agree with this.  As much as I dislike the name that I believe github
> will choose, we should just do whatever everyone else is doing.
>
>
>
> Note that in addition to the github discussion, there is some extensive
> discussion on the .git mailing list (IIRC) about choosing a new name as
> well.  I hope github waits until that choses a name as well.
>
>
>
> *From:* llvm-dev <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org>
> <llvm-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org> *On Behalf Of *Philip Reames via
> llvm-dev
> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 10:39 AM
> *To:* Mehdi AMINI <joker.eph at gmail.com> <joker.eph at gmail.com>; llvm-dev
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [llvm-dev] Inclusive language in LLVM: can we rename
> `master` branch?
>
>
>
> +1 to the notion of changing the branch name in general.
>
> However, I think there's a practical aspect which needs considered.
> Currently, "master" is the defacto convention used across many, many
> projects.  There's currently a lot of conversation going on across many
> projects about naming.  I think it's really important that rather than just
> picking something that we wait and see what the new convention is, and
> adopt that.  I've seen reporting that GitHub is considering changing the
> default name for new projects.  If that does end up happening - I hope it
> does - I think we should use whatever name they pick.  Convention is
> critical for ease of use of new contributors.
>
> Philip
>
> p.s. There's a bunch of other terminology in use which is potentially
> problematic, but I'm intentionally restricting my response to this one.  I
> think each deserves discussion on it's own merits.
>
> On 6/19/20 2:48 AM, Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> When we moved to GitHub a few months ago, we used without more
> consideration the "master" convention to name our development branch. On
> SVN it used to be just "trunk".
>
> This naming is unfortunate
> <https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-knodel-terminology-00.html#rfc.section.1.1> as
> it can hurt some contributors
> <https://dev.to/afrodevgirl/replacing-master-with-main-in-github-2fjf>,
> and there is really no technical advantage that I know of to favor this
> convention over another.
>
>
>
> I am perfectly aware that `master` has other significations than the
> master/slave meaning, and I personally never made this association in the
> past. However I'm also able to recognize that I'm privileged here, and that
> not everyone is in the same position.
>
>
>
> As we intend to be an inclusive community, I propose that we change the
> name of our development branch and that we adopt instead a more neutral
> terminology for the LLVM monorepo. Possible names are "dev", "trunk",
> "main", "default", ...
>
>
>
> We need to plan a transition as all the bots will need to be updated to
> track this new branch instead, but these are minor technical details,
> nothing compared to the SVN->Git migration we went through.
>
>
>
> Since I'm on this topic, we should also likely look into the pervasive use
> of whitelist/blacklist in the project.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mehdi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> LLVM Developers mailing list
>
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> LLVM Developers mailing list
>
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/attachments/20200619/e5891700/attachment.html>