[llvm-dev] Fwd: RFC: Moving toward Discord and Discourse for LLVM's discussions

Zachary Turner via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Tue Nov 19 11:15:59 PST 2019

FWIW, Chromium has a Slack:


At the top it says this:

> To join Chromium's Slack, the organization or person needs to be listed
in Chromium's AUTHOR file
<https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/master/>. If you have
ever contributed a change or belong to one of the active contributor
organizations you will be there.
> Anyone with a @chromium.org address can join directly. Others will have
to follow an invite link that you get by mailing a request to
chromium-slack-invites (at) chromium.org.

So that's one interesting angle.  There is already the #llvm channel on
cpplang.slack.com for non-llvm developers to ask questions, so we could go
with something similar here, which would eliminate a lot of the potential
abuse.  Note that it also doesn't say that the Chromium slack is private,
just that if you're not whitelisted by email address, you have to
explicitly request an invitation.

On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 10:57 AM Matthew Hodgson <matthew at matrix.org> wrote:

> In our experience, the fact that IRC is niche and relatively inaccessible
> and lo-fi means that it's much less likely to suffer abuse; it's
> effectively security through obscurity.  However, if you want to expand
> your community to be more accessible and inclusive, then by definition you
> make it easier for bad actors to enter and participate as well as
> constructive participants.  Throw in richer content such as images, videos,
> avatars, file transfer, large messages, etc and sadly you find yourself
> needing better moderation tools.  ymmv of course.
> On 19/11/2019 18:30, Zachary Turner wrote:
>   What I'm curious about is how often that level of control over
> moderation has been needed in the past with our IRC.  I certainly agree
> that it's missing many moderation features, I'm just not yet convinced that
> we need those moderation features.
> Redactions (Removing Messages) - We can't do that with IRC either
> Managing Abusive Display Names / Avatars - We can kick people from the
> Slack
> Power levels / Roles - IRC has this in very limited capacity, but I don't
> believe we've ever needed anything other than "normal user" and "admin".
> Slack has that.
> Kicking and banning users - Slack has this
> (I don't know what the rest of the topics are about under Moderating Rooms)
> Consenting to Terms and Conditions - IRC doesn't have this
> Removing users, rooms and content - Slack Admins can do this
> Banning clients by IP - We probably don't want to do this anyway as it
> could cause an entire organization to be banned
> Reporting bad content  - Discord doesn't do this
> Blocking users  - This one seems valid, Discord does allow you to do this
> and so does IRC.  I actually don't know if Slack does.
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 10:03 AM Matthew Hodgson via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>> Slack's community moderation features are pretty terrible - it's simply
>> not set up for managing public-facing communities; it's set up for managing
>> private workplace team collaboration.  The best way to try to explain the
>> features which are missing are to look at something like the Matrix
>> moderation guide (https://matrix.org/docs/guides/moderation/); many of
>> these features are missing in Slack.
>> On 19/11/2019 17:51, Zachary Turner via llvm-dev wrote:
>> I suspected it may be related to Discord's heavy emphasis on role-based
>> permissions, but it would be good to get an official answer.  Slack
>> definitely does have administrators, and Administrators can kick people out
>> of the slack, which...  might be sufficient?  I don't know . From a
>> usability standpoint, Discord is vastly inferior to Slack so I think it's
>> worth doing this comparison
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 7:38 AM Finkel, Hal J. <hfinkel at anl.gov> wrote:
>>> On 11/19/19 9:09 AM, Zachary Turner via llvm-dev wrote:
>>> Note there is also Slack, which does not have these problems.  Not sure
>>> why that keeps being overlooked
>>> My understanding is this is because Slack does not have good moderation
>>> tools. I'm unfamiliar with further details in this regard.
>>>  -Hal
>>> --
>> Matthew Hodgson
>> Matrix.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
> --
> Matthew Hodgson
> Matrix.org
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