[llvm-dev] [cfe-dev] [RFC] Expose user provided vector function for auto-vectorization.

Francesco Petrogalli via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Fri May 31 10:32:42 PDT 2019

> On May 31, 2019, at 12:00 PM, Alexey Bataev via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> Hi Francesco, did you think about adding the attribute instead of the pragma? It is a common way to express such constructs as function attributes in clang/GCC rather than as pragma.

Yes, I thought about it, I believe that GCC plans to use attributes.

In https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Common-Function-Attributes.html#Common-Function-Attributes there is a description of the “simd” attribute, but I couldn’t find an example of how it is used.

Also, I cannot find an attribute that is equivalent to the “declare variant” directive. Maybe it is planned for future releases.

The idea of using a `clang` equivalent of the `omp` directive was to avoid duplication in terms of handling both the attribute and the omp directive, as both directive will share much of the infrastructure.

> Best regards,
> Alexey Bataev
>> 31 мая 2019 г., в 12:18, Francesco Petrogalli via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org> написал(а):
>> Hi All,
>> Thank you for the feedback so far.
>> I am replying to all your questions/concerns/suggestions in this single email. Please let me know if I have missed any.
>> I will update the RFC accordingly to what we end up deciding here.
>> Kind regards,
>> Francesco
>> # TOPIC 1: concerns about name mangling
>> I understand that there are concerns in using the mangling scheme I proposed, and that it would be preferred to have a mangling scheme that is based on (and standardized by) OpenMP. I hear the argument on having some common ground here. In fact, there is already common ground between the x86 and aarch64 backend, who have based their respective Vector Function ABI specifications on OpenMP.
>> In fact, the mangled name grammar can be summarized as follows:
>> _ZGV<isa><masking><VLEN><parameter type>_<scalar name>
>> Across vector extensions the only <token> that will differ is the <isa> token.
>> This might lead people to think that we could drop the _ZGV<isa> prefix and consider the <masking><VLEN><parameter type>_<scalar name> part as a sort of unofficial OpenMP mangling scheme: in fact, the signature of an “unmasked 2-lane vector vector of `sin`” will always be `<2 x double>(2 x double>).
>> The problem with this choice is the number of vector version available for a target is not unique.
>> In particular, the following declaration generates multiple vector versions, depending on the target:
>> #pragma omp declare simd simdlen(2) notinbranch
>> double foo(double) {…};
>> On x86, this generates at least 4 symbols (one for SSE, one for AVX, one for AVX2, and one for AVX512: https://godbolt.org/z/TLYXPi)
>> On aarch64, the same declaration generates a unique symbol, as specified in the Vector Function ABI.
>> This means that the attribute (or metadata) that carries the information on the available vector version needs to deal also with things that are not usually visible at IR level, but that might still need to be provided to be able to decide which particular instruction set/ vector extension needs to be targeted.
>> I used an example based on `declare simd` instead of `declare variant` because the attribute/metadata needed for `declare variant` is a modification of the one needed for `declare simd`, which has already been agreed in a previous RFC proposed by Intel [1], and for which Intel has already provided an implementation [2]. The changes proposed in this RFC are fully compatible with the work that is being don for the VecClone pass in [2].
>> [1] http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2016-March/047732.html
>> [2] VecCLone pass: https://reviews.llvm.org/D22792
>> The good news is that as far as AArch64 and x86 are concerned, the only thing that will differ in the mangled name is the “<isa>” token. As far as I can tell, the mangling scheme of the rest of the vector name is the same, therefore a lot of infrastructure in terms of mangling and demangling can be reused. In fact, the `mangleVectorParameters` function in https://clang.llvm.org/doxygen/CGOpenMPRuntime_8cpp_source.html#l09918 could already be shared among x86 and aarch64.
>> TOPIC 2: metadata vs attribute
>> From a functionality point of view, I don’t care whether we use metadata or attributes. The VecClone pass mentioned in TOPIC 1 uses the following:
>> attributes #0 = { nounwind uwtable “vector-variants"="_ZGVbM4vv_vec_sum,_ZGVbN4vv_vec_sum,_ZGVcM8vv_vec_sum,_ZGVcN8vv_vec_sum,_ZGVdM8vv_vec_sum,_ZGVdN8vv_vec_sum,_ZGVeM16vv_vec_sum,_ZGVeN16”}
>> This is an attribute (I though it was metadata?), I am happy to reword the RFC using the right terminology (sorry for messing this up).
>> Also, @Renato expressed concern that metadata might be dropped by optimization passes - would using attributes prevent that?
>> TOPIC 3: "There is no way to notify the backend how conformant the SIMD versions are.”
>> @Shawn, I am afraid I don’t understand what you mean by “conformant” here. Can you elaborate with an example?
>> TOPIC 3: interaction of the `omp declare variant` with `clang declare variant`
>> I believe this is described in the `Option behavior, and interaction with OpenMP`. The option `-fclang-declare-variant` is there to make the OpenMP based one orthogonal. Of course, we might decide to make -fclang-declare-variant on/off by default, and have default behavior when interacting with -fopenmp-simd. For the sake of compatibility with other compilers, we might need to require -fno-clang-declare-variant when targeting -fopenmp-[simd].
>> TOPIC 3: "there are no special arguments / flags / status regs that are used / changed in the vector version that the compiler will have to "just know”
>> I believe that this concern is raised by the problem of handling FP exceptions? If that’s the case, the compiler is not allowed to do any assumption on the vector function about that, and treat it with the same knowledge of any other function, depending on the visibility it has in the compilation unit. @Renato, does this answer your question?
>> TOPIC 4: attribute in function declaration vs attribute function call site
>> We discussed this in the previous version of the proposal. Having it in the call sites guarantees that incompatible vector version are used when merging modules compiled for different targets. I don’t have a use case for this, if I remember correctly this was asked by @Hideki Saito. Hideki, any comment on this?
>> TOPIC 5: overriding system header (the discussion on #pragma omp/clang/system variants initiated by @Hal Finkel).
>> I though that the split among #pragma clang declare variant and #pragma omp declare variant was already providing the orthogonality between system header and user header. Meaning that a user should always prefer the omp version (for portability to other compilers) instead of the #pragma clang one, which would be relegated to system headers and headers provided by the compiler. Am I missing something? If so, I am happy to add a “system” version of the directive, as it would be quite easy to do given most of the parsing infrastructure will be shared.
>>> On May 30, 2019, at 12:53 PM, Philip Reames <listmail at philipreames.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/30/19 9:05 AM, Doerfert, Johannes wrote:
>>>>> On 05/29, Finkel, Hal J. via cfe-dev wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/29/19 1:52 PM, Philip Reames wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/28/19 7:55 PM, Finkel, Hal J. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/28/19 3:31 PM, Philip Reames via cfe-dev wrote:
>>>>>>>> I generally like the idea of having support in IR for vectorization of
>>>>>>>> custom functions.  I have several use cases which would benefit from this.
>>>>>>>> I'd suggest a couple of reframings to the IR representation though.
>>>>>>>> First, this should probably be specified as metadata/attribute on a
>>>>>>>> function declaration.  Allowing the callsite variant is fine, but it
>>>>>>>> should primarily be a property of the called function, not of the call
>>>>>>>> site.  Being able to specify it once per declaration is much cleaner.
>>>>>>> I agree. We should support this both on the function declaration and on
>>>>>>> the call sites.
>>>>>>>> Second, I really don't like the mangling use here.  We need a better way
>>>>>>>> to specify the properties of the function then it's mangled name.  One
>>>>>>>> thought to explore is to directly use the Value of the function
>>>>>>>> declaration (since this is metadata and we can do that), and then tie
>>>>>>>> the properties to the function declaration in some way?  Sorry, I don't
>>>>>>>> really have a specific suggestion here.
>>>>>>> Is the problem the mangling or the fact that the mangling is
>>>>>>> ABI/target-specific? One option is to use LLVM's mangling scheme (the
>>>>>>> one we use for intrinsics) and then provide some backend infrastructure
>>>>>>> to translate later.
>>>>>> Well, both honestly.  But mangling with a non-target specific scheme is
>>>>>> a lot better, so I might be okay with that.   Good idea.
>>>>> I liked your idea of directly encoding the signature in the metadata, 
>>>>> but I think that we want to continue to use attributes, and not 
>>>>> metadata, and the options for attributes seem more limited - unless we 
>>>>> allow attributes to take metadata arguments - maybe that's an 
>>>>> enhancement worth considering.
>>>> I recently talked to people in the OpenMP language committee meeting
>>>> about this and, thinking forward to the actual implementation/use of the
>>>> OpenMP 5.x declare variant feature, I'd say:
>>>> - We will need a mangling scheme if we want to allow variants on
>>>>  declarations that are defined elsewhere.
>>>> - We will need a (OpenMP) standardized mangling scheme if we want
>>>>  interoperability between compilers.
>>>> I assume we want both so I think we will need both.
>>> If I'm reading this correctly, this describes a need for the frontend to
>>> have a mangling scheme.  Nothing in here would seem to prevent the
>>> frontend for generating a declaration for a mangled external symbol and
>>> then referencing that declaration.  Am I missing something?
>>>> That said, I think this should allow us to avoid attributes/metadata
>>>> which seems to me like a good thing right now.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Johannes
>>>>>>>>> On 5/28/19 12:44 PM, Francesco Petrogalli via llvm-dev wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>>> This RFC is a proposal to provide auto-vectorization functionality for user provided vector functions.
>>>>>>>>> The proposal is a modification of an RFC that I have sent out a couple of months ago, with the title `[RFC] Re-implementing -fveclib with OpenMP` (see http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2018-December/128426.html). The previous RFC is to be considered abandoned.
>>>>>>>>> The original RFC was proposing to re-implement the `-fveclib` command line option. This proposal avoids that, and limits its scope to the mechanics of providing vector function in user code that the compiler can pick up for auto-vectorization. This narrower scope limits the impact of changes that are needed in both clang and LLVM.
>>>>>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>>>>> =================================================================================
>>>>>>>>> Introduction
>>>>>>>>> ============
>>>>>>>>> This RFC encompasses the proposal of informing the vectorizer about the
>>>>>>>>> availability of vector functions provided by the user. The mechanism is
>>>>>>>>> based on the use of the directive `declare variant` introduced in OpenMP
>>>>>>>>> 5.0 [^1].
>>>>>>>>> The mechanism proposed has the following properties:
>>>>>>>>> 1.  Decouples the compiler front-end that knows about the availability
>>>>>>>>>    of vectorized routines, from the back-end that knows how to make use
>>>>>>>>>    of them.
>>>>>>>>> 2.  Enable support for a developer's own vector libraries without
>>>>>>>>>    requiring changes to the compiler.
>>>>>>>>> 3.  Enables other frontends (e.g. f18) to add scalar-to-vector function
>>>>>>>>>    mappings as relevant for their own runtime libraries, etc.
>>>>>>>>> The implemetation consists of two separate sets of changes.
>>>>>>>>> The first set is a set o changes in `llvm`, and consists of:
>>>>>>>>> 1.  [Changes in LLVM IR](#llvmIR) to provide information about the
>>>>>>>>>    availability of user-defined vector functions via metadata attached
>>>>>>>>>    to an `llvm::CallInst`.
>>>>>>>>> 2.  [An infrastructure](#infrastructure) that can be queried to retrive
>>>>>>>>>    information about the available vector functions associated to a
>>>>>>>>>    `llvm::CallInst`.
>>>>>>>>> 3.  [Changes in the LoopVectorizer](#LV) to use the API to query the
>>>>>>>>>    metadata.
>>>>>>>>> The second set consists of the changes [changes in clang](#clang) that
>>>>>>>>> are needed too to recognize the `#pragma clang declare variant`
>>>>>>>>> directive.
>>>>>>>>> Proposed changes
>>>>>>>>> ================
>>>>>>>>> We propose an implementation that uses `#pragma clang declare variant`
>>>>>>>>> to inform the backend components about the availability of vector
>>>>>>>>> version of scalar functions found in IR. The mechanism relies in storing
>>>>>>>>> such information in IR metadata, and therefore makes the
>>>>>>>>> auto-vectorization of function calls a mid-end (`opt`) process that is
>>>>>>>>> independent on the front-end that generated such IR metadata.
>>>>>>>>> This implementation provides a generic mechanism that the users of the
>>>>>>>>> LLVM compiler will be able to use for interfacing their own vector
>>>>>>>>> routines for generic code.
>>>>>>>>> The implementation can also expose vectorization-specific descriptors --
>>>>>>>>> for example, like the `linear` and `uniform` clauses of the OpenMP
>>>>>>>>> `declare simd` directive -- that could be used to finely tune the
>>>>>>>>> automatic vectorization of some functions (think for example the
>>>>>>>>> vectorization of `double sincos(double , double *, double *)`, where
>>>>>>>>> `linear` can be used to give extra information about the memory layout
>>>>>>>>> of the 2 pointers parameters in the vector version).
>>>>>>>>> The directive `#pragma clang declare variant` follows the syntax of the
>>>>>>>>> `#pragma omp declare variant` directive of OpenMP.
>>>>>>>>> We define the new directive in the `clang` namespace instead of using
>>>>>>>>> the `omp` one of OpenMP to allow the compiler to perform
>>>>>>>>> auto-vectorization outside of an OpenMP SIMD context.
>>>>>>>>> The mechanism is base on OpenMP to provide a uniform user experience
>>>>>>>>> across the two mechanism, and to maximise the number of shared
>>>>>>>>> components of the infrastructure needed in the compiler frontend to
>>>>>>>>> enable the feature.
>>>>>>>>> Changes in LLVM IR {#llvmIR}
>>>>>>>>> ------------------
>>>>>>>>> The IR is enriched with metadata that details the availability of vector
>>>>>>>>> versions of an associated scalar function. This metadata is attached to
>>>>>>>>> the call site of the scalar function.
>>>>>>>>> The metadata takes the form of an attribute containing a comma separated
>>>>>>>>> list of vector function mappings. Each entry has a unique name that
>>>>>>>>> follows the Vector Function ABI[^2] and real name that is used when
>>>>>>>>> generating calls to this vector function.
>>>>>>>>>    vfunc_name1(real_name1), vfunc_name2(real_name2)
>>>>>>>>> The Vector Function ABI name describes the signature of the vector
>>>>>>>>> function so that properties like vectorisation factor can be queried
>>>>>>>>> during compilation.
>>>>>>>>> The `(real name)` token is optional and assumed to match the Vector
>>>>>>>>> Function ABI name when omitted.
>>>>>>>>> For example, the availability of a 2-lane double precision `sin`
>>>>>>>>> function via SVML when targeting AVX on x86 is provided by the following
>>>>>>>>> IR.
>>>>>>>>>    // ...
>>>>>>>>>    ... = call double @sin(double) #0
>>>>>>>>>    // ...
>>>>>>>>>    #0 = { vector-variant = {"_ZGVcN2v_sin(__svml_sin2),
>>>>>>>>>                              _ZGVdN4v_sin(__svml_sin4),
>>>>>>>>>                              ..."} }
>>>>>>>>> The string `"_ZGVcN2v_sin(__svml_sin2)"` in this vector-variant
>>>>>>>>> attribute provides information on the shape of the vector function via
>>>>>>>>> the string `_ZGVcN2v_sin`, mangled according to the Vector Function ABI
>>>>>>>>> for Intel, and remaps the standard Vector Function ABI name to the
>>>>>>>>> non-standard name `__svml_sin2`.
>>>>>>>>> This metadata is compatible with the proposal "Proposal for function
>>>>>>>>> vectorization and loop vectorization with function calls",[^3] that uses
>>>>>>>>> Vector Function ABI mangled names to inform the vectorizer about the
>>>>>>>>> availability of vector functions. The proposal extends the original by
>>>>>>>>> allowing the explicit mapping of the Vector Function ABI mangled name to
>>>>>>>>> a non-standard name, which allows the use of existing vector libraries.
>>>>>>>>> The `vector-variant` attribute needs to be attached on a per-call basis
>>>>>>>>> to avoid conflicts when merging modules with different vector variants.
>>>>>>>>> The query infrastructure: SVFS {#infrastructure}
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> The Search Vector Function System (SVFS) is constructed from an
>>>>>>>>> `llvm::Module` instance so it can create function definitions. The SVFS
>>>>>>>>> exposes an API with two methods.
>>>>>>>>> ### `SVFS::isFunctionVectorizable`
>>>>>>>>> This method queries the avilability of a vectorized version of a
>>>>>>>>> function. The signature of the method is as follows.
>>>>>>>>>    bool isFunctionVectorizable(llvm::CallInst * Call, ParTypeMap Params);
>>>>>>>>> The method determine the availability of vector version of the function
>>>>>>>>> invoked by the `Call` parameter by looking at the `vector-variant`
>>>>>>>>> metadata.
>>>>>>>>> The `Params` argument is a map that associates the position of a
>>>>>>>>> parameter in the `CallInst` to its `ParameterType` descriptor. The
>>>>>>>>> `ParameterType` descriptor holds information about the shape of the
>>>>>>>>> correspondend parameter in the signature of the vector function. This
>>>>>>>>> `ParamaterType` is used to query the SVMS about the availability of
>>>>>>>>> vector version that have `linear`, `uniform` or `align` parameters (in
>>>>>>>>> the sense of OpenMP 4.0 and onwards).
>>>>>>>>> The method `isFunctionVectorizable`, when invoked with an empty
>>>>>>>>> `ParTypeMap`, is equivalent to the `TargetLibraryInfo` method
>>>>>>>>> `isFunctionVectorizable(StrinRef Name)`.
>>>>>>>>> ### `SVFS::getVectorizedFunction`
>>>>>>>>> This method returns the vector function declaration that correspond to
>>>>>>>>> the needs of the vectorization technique that is being run.
>>>>>>>>> The signature of the function is as follows.
>>>>>>>>>    std::pair<llvm::FunctionType *, std::string> getVectorizedFunction(
>>>>>>>>>      llvm::CallInst * Call, unsigned VF, bool IsMasked, ParTypeSet Params);
>>>>>>>>> The `Call` parameter is the call instance that is being vectorized, the
>>>>>>>>> `VF` parameter represent the vectorization factor (how many lanes), the
>>>>>>>>> `IsMasked` parameter decides whether or not the signature of the vector
>>>>>>>>> function is required to have a mask parameter, the `Params` parameter
>>>>>>>>> describes the shape of the vector function as in the
>>>>>>>>> `isFunctionVectorizable` method.
>>>>>>>>> The methods uses the `vector-variant` metadata and returns the function
>>>>>>>>> signature and the name of the function based on the input parameters.
>>>>>>>>> The SVFS can add new function definitions, in the same module as the
>>>>>>>>> `Call`, to provide vector functions that are not present within the
>>>>>>>>> vector-variant metadata. For example, if a library provides a vector
>>>>>>>>> version of a function with a vectorization factor of 2, but the
>>>>>>>>> vectorizer is requesting a vectorization factor of 4, the SVFS is
>>>>>>>>> allowed to create a definition that calls the 2-lane version twice. This
>>>>>>>>> capability applies similarly for providing masked and unmasked versions
>>>>>>>>> when the request does not match what is available in the library.
>>>>>>>>> This method is equivalent to the TLI method
>>>>>>>>> `StringRef getVectorizedFunction(StringRef F, unsigned VF) const;`.
>>>>>>>>> Notice that to fully support OpenMP vectorization we need to think about
>>>>>>>>> a fuzzy matching mechanism that is able to select a candidate in the
>>>>>>>>> calling context. However, this proposal is intended for scalar-to-vector
>>>>>>>>> mappings of math-like functions that are most likely to associate a
>>>>>>>>> unique vector candidate in most contexts. Therefore, extending this
>>>>>>>>> behavior to a generic one is an aspect of the implementation that will
>>>>>>>>> be treated in a separate RFC about the vectorization pass.
>>>>>>>>> ### Scalable vectorization
>>>>>>>>> Both methods of the SVFS API will be extended with a boolean parameter
>>>>>>>>> to specify whether scalable signatures are needed by the user of the
>>>>>>>>> SVFS.
>>>>>>>>> Changes in clang {#clang}
>>>>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>>>>> We use clang to generate the metadata described above.
>>>>>>>>> In the compilation unit, the vector function definition or declaration
>>>>>>>>> must be visible and associated to the scalar version via the
>>>>>>>>> `#pragma clang declare variant` according to the rule defined by the
>>>>>>>>> correspondent `#pragma omp declare variant` defined in OpenMP 5.0, as in
>>>>>>>>> the following example.
>>>>>>>>>    #pragma clang declare variant(vector_sinf) \
>>>>>>>>>    match(construct=simd(simdlen(4),notinbranch), device={isa("simd")})
>>>>>>>>>    extern float sinf(float);
>>>>>>>>>    float32x4_t vector_sinf(float32x4_t x);
>>>>>>>>> The `construct` set in the directive, together with the `device` set, is
>>>>>>>>> used to generate the vector mangled name to be used in the
>>>>>>>>> `vector-variant` attribute, for example `_ZGVnN2v_sin`, when targeting
>>>>>>>>> AArch64 Advanced SIMD code generation. The rule for mangling the name of
>>>>>>>>> the scalar function in the vector name are defined in the the Vector
>>>>>>>>> Function ABI specification of the target.
>>>>>>>>> The part of the vector-variant attribute that redirects the call to
>>>>>>>>> `vector_sinf` is derived from the `variant-id` specified in the
>>>>>>>>> `variant` clause.
>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>> =======
>>>>>>>>> New `clang` directive in clang
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> `#pragma omp declare variant`, same as `#pragma omp declare variant`
>>>>>>>>> restricted to the `simd` context selector, from OpenMP 5.0+.
>>>>>>>>> Option behavior, and interaction with OpenMP
>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> The behavior described below makes sure that
>>>>>>>>> `#pragma cland declare variant` function vectorization and OpenMP
>>>>>>>>> function vectorization are orthogonal.
>>>>>>>>> `-fclang-declare-variant`
>>>>>>>>> :   The `#pragma clang declare variant` directives are parsed and used
>>>>>>>>>    to populate the `vector-variant` attribute.
>>>>>>>>> `-fopenmp[-simd]`
>>>>>>>>> :   The `#pragma omp declare variant` directives are parsed and used to
>>>>>>>>>    populate the `vector-variant` attribute.
>>>>>>>>> `-fopenmp[-simd]`and `-fno-clang-declare-variant`
>>>>>>>>> :   The directive `#pragma omp declare variant` is used to populate the
>>>>>>>>>    `vector-variant` attribute in IR. The directive
>>>>>>>>>    `#pragma   clang declare variant` are ignored.
>>>>>>>>> [^1]: <https://www.openmp.org/wp-content/uploads/OpenMP-API-Specification-5.0.pdf>
>>>>>>>>> [^2]: Vector Function ABI for x86:
>>>>>>>>>    <https://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/vector-simd-function-abi>.
>>>>>>>>>    Vector Function ABI for AArch64:
>>>>>>>>>    https://developer.arm.com/products/software-development-tools/hpc/arm-compiler-for-hpc/vector-function-abi
>>>>>>>>> [^3]: <http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/cfe-dev/2016-March/047732.html>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> cfe-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Hal Finkel
>>>>> Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
>>>>> Leadership Computing Facility
>>>>> Argonne National Laboratory
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> cfe-dev mailing list
>>>>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>>>>> https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
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