[lldb-dev] [cfe-dev] [llvm-dev] RFC: End-to-end testing

Robinson, Paul via lldb-dev lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org
Tue Oct 15 07:55:38 PDT 2019

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cfe-dev <cfe-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org> On Behalf Of Renato Golin
> via cfe-dev
> Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 11:24 AM
> To: David Greene <dag at cray.com>
> Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org; cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org; Gerolf Hoflehner
> <ghoflehner at apple.com>; openmp-dev at lists.llvm.org; lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org
> Subject: Re: [cfe-dev] [llvm-dev] RFC: End-to-end testing
> Hi David,
> You answer some of your own questions down below, so I'll try to
> collate the responses and shorten my reply.
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 at 15:20, David Greene <dag at cray.com> wrote:
> > How are regressions reported?  On llvm-dev?
> They're buildbots, exactly like any other. Direct email, llvm-commits,
> irc, bugzilla. There is no distinction, broken bots need to be fixed.
> llvm-dev is not the place to report bugs.
> > I'm confused.  On the one hand you say you don't want to put e2e tests
> > in a dark corner, but here you speculate they could be easily removed.
> > Presumably a test was added because there was some failure that other
> > tests did not catch.  It's true that once a test is fixed it's very
> > likely it will never break again.  Is that a reason to remove tests?
> Sorry, my point is about the dynamics between number of tests, their
> coverage, time to run, frequency of *unrelated* breakage, etc.
> There are no set rules, but there is a back-pressure as developers and
> bot owners tend to breakages.
> > What do you mean by "annoy?"  Taking too long to run?
> Tests that break more often are looked at more often, and if their
> breakages overlap with other simpler tests, than developers will begin
> to question their importance. Tests that take too long to run will be
> looked into, and if they don't add much, they can be asked for
> removal. That pressure is higher in the LIT side than in the
> test-suite.
> I'm trying to find a place where we can put the tests that will run at
> the appropriate frequency and have the lowest probability of upsetting
> CI and developers, so we can evolve them into what they *need* to be,
> not cap it from the start and end up with something sub-par.
> > Would it be possible to keep them in the monorepo but have bots that
> > exercise those tests at the test-suite frequency?  I suspect that if e2e
> > tests live in test-suite very few people will ever run them before
> > merging to master.
> Bots are pretty dumb: either they run something or they don't.
> But more importantly, if we split the e2e tests in LIT, then people
> won't run them before merging to master anyway.

Depends on whether they are part of check-all.

> Truth is, we don't *need* to. That's the whole point of having a fast
> CI and the community really respects that.
> As long as we have the tests running every few dozen commits, and bot
> owner and developers work to fix them in time, we're good.
> Furthermore, the test-suite already has e2e tests in there, so it is
> the right place to add more. We can have more control of which tools
> and libraries to use, how to check for quality, etc.

My understanding is that test-suite had large-ish executable tests.
David is talking about small compile-only e2e tests.  These would hardly
take any more time than any other existing lit test.

> > I still think the kinds of e2e tests I'm thinking of are much closer to
> > the existing LIT tests in the monorepo than things in test-suite.  I
> > expect them to be quite small.
> Adding tests to LIT means all fast bots will be slower. Adding them to
> the test-suite means all test-suite bots will still take the about
> same time.
> If the tests only need to be ran once ever few dozen commits, then
> having them on LIT is clearly not the right place.

The lit-versus-test-suite distinction is not the right one.  Bots don't
run "lit tests" as one big lump; they run the tests for a configured set
of projects.  If the e2e tests are in with all the other clang tests, 
then they get run by the clang bots.  If they are in a different project 
(test-suite or their own) then they get run by the bots that run that 
project.  This is decided by the bot owner.

> > They wouldn't necessarily need to run as
> > part of check-all (and indeed, I've been told that no one runs check-all
> > anyway because it's too fragile).
> check-all doesn't need to check everything that is in the repo, but
> everything that is built.
> So if you build llvm+clang, then you should *definitely* check both.
> "make check" doesn't do that.
> With the monorepo this may change slightly, but we still need a way to
> test everything that our patches touch, including clang, rt, and
> others.
> I always ran check-all before every patch, FWIW.

Yep.  Although I run check-all before *starting* on a patch, to make sure
the starting point is clean.  It usually is, but I've been caught enough
times to be slightly wary.

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