[lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an unsupported toolchain

Tue Mar 29 09:40:00 PDT 2016

Keep in mind that llvm bumps minimum vs version roughly once a year, and
it's probably about that time. So the discussion here is just about whether
to do it earlier than llvm, not whether to do it all.

So whether it's now or a few months from now, at some point you're going to
have to handle these incompatibilities in your own fork out of tree
On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 9:11 AM Aidan Dodds via lldb-dev <
lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

> At Codeplay we are currently building on windows using a split of MSVC
> 2013 and MSVC 2015.
> In theory we are happy to move entirely to 2015, but until then we would
> have to work around any 2013 breakages.
>
>
> On 29/03/2016 16:16, Pavel Labath via lldb-dev wrote:
> > Zachary, all,
> >
> > after overcoming some problems, mostly unrelated to MSVC, we have
> > finally managed to switch to VS2015. I think that means there are no
> > more VS2013 users remaining. Given that, shall we start the process to
> > formally allow c++ features, which were blocked due to VS2013 until
> > now? I am mostly thinking about thread-safe function-static variable
> > initialization and alias templates here...
> >
> > what do you think?
> > pl
> >
> >
> > On 4 February 2016 at 20:23, Ted Woodward <ted.woodward at codeaurora.org>
> wrote:
> >> We can change to 3+2015; if you guys don't think 2+2013 is useful,
> we'll do that.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> >> The Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Pavel Labath [mailto:labath at google.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2016 10:01 AM
> >> To: Ted Woodward
> >> Cc: Zachary Turner; LLDB
> >> Subject: Re: [lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an
> unsupported toolchain
> >>
> >> Hi all.
> >>
> >> we (android lldb team) are starting to transition to VS2015 as well.
> >> For now, the plan is to stick to python 2.7, but if we encounter
> problems there, the backup plan is to go to python 3 as well. Until then (I
> estimate that will take 1--2 weeks) our buildbot <
> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-windows7-android> will continue
> building 2.7+2013 and we will be making sure it works, so please don't
> check in any VS2013 incompatible code (yet).
> >>
> >> Ted: If you can't switch to the 3+2015 combination (which I *do*
> recommend you try), maybe you can go half-way and switch to 2.7+2015 (I can
> show you how to build python 2.7 with VS2015). If you stick with 2.7+2013
> combo, it will soon be up to you to chase anyone who adds 2013-breaking
> changes...
> >>
> >> pl
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2 February 2016 at 23:42, Ted Woodward via lldb-dev <
> lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >>> No, it turned red Friday night/Saturday morning.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Last good build:
> >>>
> >>> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-x86-win7-msvc/builds/15167
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> First bad build:
> >>>
> >>> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-x86-win7-msvc/builds/15168
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It went red because of the change to VS2015/Python 3.5.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> >>>
> >>> The Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> >>> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Zachary Turner [mailto:zturner at google.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 5:28 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To: Ted Woodward; LLDB
> >>> Subject: Re: [lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an
> >>> unsupported toolchain
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> BTW, I expect that your buildbot has been experiencing the problems
> >>> with the
> >>> x86 / x64 toolchain for quite some time, because it's not really
> >>> relevant to how much memory your machine has, but just that it was
> >>> using an x86 toolchain at all.  Has it been red for a long time?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:48 PM Zachary Turner <zturner at google.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> You may have to make some changes to the zorg scripts to keep that
> working.
> >>> I didn't realize there were any other bots building LLDB, so I made
> >>> some changes that will default everything to VS2015 and Py3.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> BTW, is your builder doing a debug build or a release build?  When
> >>> doing a debug build clang now requires more memory than can fit in a
> >>> 4GB address space to link, so using an x86 toolchain won't work
> >>> anymore.  I forced a change to use the amd64_x86 toolchain, but this
> >>> won't work unless the version of python used by buildbot is a 64-bit
> >>> Python distro (because Python.exe is what ultimately calls vcvarsall
> >>> and cmake and it inherits the environment of the parent).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So I think you will need to do all this as well.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:44 PM Ted Woodward
> >>> <ted.woodward at codeaurora.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Then maybe we should keep it 2013/py2.7, until llvm requires 2015.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> >>>
> >>> The Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> >>> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Zachary Turner [mailto:zturner at google.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 3:43 PM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> To: Ted Woodward; LLDB
> >>> Subject: Re: [lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an
> >>> unsupported toolchain
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It's Server 2008 R2 technically, which is the server version of Win 7
> >>> (same API set, same OS features, etc).  So yea, I'm pretty confident
> >>> that test coverage is going to be 100% the same across both.  It's
> >>> just a matter of if you want to have something that you maintain /
> >>> have control over, or if you want to test something in a different way
> than what we're testing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:29 PM Ted Woodward
> >>> <ted.woodward at codeaurora.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Yours is Win Server 2008; ours is Win 7. I don’t know if that matters.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> >>>
> >>> The Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> >>> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Zachary Turner [mailto:zturner at google.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 2:48 PM
> >>> To: Ted Woodward; LLDB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an
> >>> unsupported toolchain
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If I remember correctly your bot isn't actually doing anything
> >>> differently than my bot [
> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-x86-windows-msvc2015].
> >>> If you want you could just remove your bot.  If you want to keep it,
> >>> then yea getting it on VS2015 and Python 3 would be the best idea.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM Ted Woodward via lldb-dev
> >>> <lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It looks like our bot,
> >>> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-x86-win7-msvc
> >>> , has tried to update to Python 3.5 and MSVC 2015, but it can’t find
> >>> python or VC. I’ll talk to our buildmiester about it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Should we run this guy with 2013/py2.7 or 2015/py3.5?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc.
> >>>
> >>> The Qualcomm Innovation Center, Inc. is a member of Code Aurora Forum,
> >>> a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: lldb-dev [mailto:lldb-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org] On Behalf Of
> >>> Zachary Turner via lldb-dev
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 1:55 PM
> >>> To: Tamas Berghammer; LLDB
> >>> Subject: Re: [lldb-dev] MSVC 2013 w/ Python 2.7 is moving to an
> >>> unsupported toolchain
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:42 AM Tamas Berghammer
> >>> <tberghammer at google.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Zachary,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We are still using MSVC 2013 and Python 2.7 to compile LLDB on Windows
> >>> for Android Studio and we also have a buildbot what is testing this
> >>> configuration (without sending e-mail at the moment) here:
> >>> http://lab.llvm.org:8011/builders/lldb-windows7-android
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We are in the discussion to decide what is our plan for going forward
> >>> both in terms of Visual Studio version and Python version and I expect
> >>> that we will make a decision this week. Until then please don't remove
> >>> any hack we have in the code because of MSVC 2013 (e.g. alias template
> >>> workarounds) and if adding new code then please try not to break MSVC
> >>> 2013. I will send out an update about our decision hopefully at the
> end of this week.
> >>>
> >>> Yea I mentioned already that I'm not planning on removing anything
> >>> related to MSVC 2013, just that I'm personally not supporting it.
> >>> Which means that if anyone asks for help, or wants to make it work, or
> >>> if it breaks accidentally, they're on their own :)  I don't even have
> >>> MSVC 2013 installed on my machine anymore, so I can't fix any MSVC
> >>> 2013 specific issues that arise.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Of course if someone else comes along and wants to help, I have no
> >>> problem with that, but due to the difficulty of dealing with
> >>> incompatibility between Python 2 and MSVC 2015, it's just going to be
> >>> up to someone else to continue making that work if they need it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> You mentioned that LLVM plan to bump the minimum version of MSVC to
> >>> 2015. Do you have any link to the place where they discussed it or do
> >>> you know anything about the schedule?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> As far as I know the discussion hasn't started yet, but historically
> >>> LLVM has always been pretty consistent about bumping the required MSVC
> version
> >>> every 12-18 months.   I know some of the Windows people on the LLVM
> side are
> >>> already "unoficially" using MSVC 2015 on a regular basis, and that's
> >>> usually a sign that people are getting an early start to see what kind
> >>> of issues might be encountered by the general public when bumping the
> >>> required version.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> lldb-dev mailing list
> >>> lldb-dev at lists.llvm.org
> >>> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lldb-dev
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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