[cfe-dev] 经过一些思考,我想,如果clang和llvm能提供多语言支持的话,必定会扩大其影响力.使计算机程序和代码世界变得更多彩更丰富和更多可能性./After some reflection, I think that if clang and llvm can provide multi-language support, it will certainly expand its influence to make computer programs and code the ...

[Daniel Marjamäki via cfe-dev]

Hello!

I don't think anybody is against this for "political" reasons. We don't try to force people to use english. We are only worried about the _technical_ problems you will have rewriting Clang to allow that any language is used.

My suggestion is that you write a translator that is executed before Clang.

Source code (I used google translate, I don't know if this is correct):

    如果（价值>三）

Your translator could convert that into:

    if (value > 3)

I see that the parentheses and ">" where not translated by google translate. but of course feel free to translate any operators.

After that, Clang is executed.

So if you manually compile your program it will be like:
$ translate-cpp chinese.cpp > temp.cpp
$ clang temp.cpp

The error messages and warning messages must be written in chinese. I assume that is possible already.. but I don't know how that is done.

Best regards,
Daniel Marjamäki

..................................................................................................................
Daniel Marjamäki Senior Engineer
Evidente ES East AB  Warfvinges väg 34  SE-112 51 Stockholm  Sweden

Mobile:                 +46 (0)709 12 42 62
E-mail:                 Daniel.Marjamaki at evidente.se

www.evidente.se

________________________________________
From: cfe-dev [cfe-dev-bounces at lists.llvm.org] on behalf of nk1988 via cfe-dev [cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org]
Sent: 17 October 2016 20:13
To: mats petersson
Cc: Clang Dev
Subject: Re: [cfe-dev]  经过一些思考,我想,如果clang和llvm能提供多语言支持的话,必定会扩大其影响力.使计算机程序和代码世界变得更多彩更丰富和更多可能性./After some reflection, I think that if clang and llvm can provide multi-language support, it will certainly expand its influence to make computer programs and code the ...

你好,很抱歉没有及时回复邮件,原因是中国大陆政府使用GFW对谷歌和世界主流社交网站进行封锁,导致我不能访问谷歌邮箱.现在我是临时用VPN才勉强能打开.

我用谷歌翻译看了你的回复文章以后,我认为,重点不是像你说的用某一种自然语言作为编程语言的宿主,并且,之前的邮件中,我已经表达过了,我的想法是,llvm和clang能提供一种接口,也就是多语言支持,并不只有[汉语/Mandarin],世界上其它语言也能实现母语编程,就是用母语作为计算机程序语言.
对于你说的英语是计算机程序设计的官方语言和标准语言.我持中立看法.我既不否定也不认同,现在没有其它文化的语言作为编程语言流行起来是因为没有人去做这件事.我并不认为旧有的东西就是所有一切,我并不认为过去等于未来,未来需要新的人和新的思想注入和开创.

关于你提到的三个问题,我回答如下
1,我确实是想用[汉语/Mandarin]来实现一种编程语言,我的设想是在现有语言基础上翻译转换一种编程语言.
2,对的,是这样,我的设想是希望更多的人能写代码,让代码世界变得丰富多彩,给代码世界注入新鲜的想法与活力.
3,没有其它的,我的想法就只有这一点.

你不需要说服我学习英语,这不是我关注的问题的重点,并且,在之前的邮件中我也已经表达过这个看法,我的英语能力很差,与我相同情况的人在这个世界上还有非常非常多.
我知道计算机最终执行的并不是英语字符,而是二进制.所以,我的设想就是在现有编译器的基础上增加一个接口,让编译器可以识别其它自然语言的字符,但是语法树还是使用原有程序语言的.因此,不同自然语言的人用他们的母语编程也同样能与世界同步,而不存在无法沟通的问题,也不存在源文件无法被分享和交换使用的问题,这就是我设想的编译器对多语言支持的重点.

我做这样的设想也是因为第一段话提到的问题,因为中国政府封锁网络的做法,导致中国与世界处于隔绝和阻断的状态,要解决这个问题不仅仅是只要学会英语就能解决的.从来就没有救世主,我们需要拯救我们自己.中国政府不能代表所有中国人.中国政府只是中国人这个群体中的一部分.而思想是不怕子弹的,像我这样寻找新的出路的中国人,我迫切需要一种方法能把想法变成切实可行的可用的工具来自救.所以,我需要一种能快速把idea变成现实的实现工具.无疑,用母语来做这件事是最适合的.同时,我也希望这一想法能帮助世界上其他有相同需求的人.

我说这些的重点就是,多语言支持.概括起来就是这样.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, I am sorry not to reply to the message, because the Chinese
mainland government to use GFW on Google and the world 's leading
social networking sites blocked, leading to I can not access Google
Mail, now I just temporarily with VPN barely able to open.

After I read your reply with Google Translate, I think the point is
not that you're talking about using a natural language as the
programming language host, and I've already expressed that before in
the mail, and my idea is , Llvm and clang can provide an interface,
that is, multi-language support, not only [Chinese / Mandarin], the
world's other languages ????can also achieve the mother tongue
programming, is the mother tongue as a computer programming language.
I do not deny or disagree, and nowadays no other cultural language is
popular as a programming language because no one is doing it. I do not
think that the old stuff is everything, I do not think the past is
equal to the future, the future needs of new people and new ideas into
and create.

On the three questions you mentioned, I answered the following
1, I really want to use [Chinese / Mandarin] to achieve a programming
language, my vision is based on the existing language translation
translation of a programming language.
2, yes, so, my vision is to hope that more people can write code, so
that the code world has become rich and colorful, to the code into the
world of fresh ideas and vitality.
3, no other, my idea is only this point.

You do not need to persuade me to learn English, which is not the
focus of my concern, and I have already expressed that in my previous
e-mails, and my English is very poor. The same people in my world are
still in this world. There are very, very many.
I know that the computer is not the final implementation of the
English characters, but binary. So, my vision is to add an existing
compiler based on the interface, so that the compiler can recognize
other natural language characters, but the syntax tree or the original
use of the original There are programming languages.Therefore, people
with different natural language programming in their native language
can also be synchronized with the world, and there is no problem can
not communicate, there is no source file can not be shared and the use
of the exchange, which is my vision The compiler's emphasis on
multilingual support.

I did the same thing because of the problems mentioned in the first
paragraph, because the Chinese government blocked the network,
resulting in China and the world is isolated and blocked state, to
solve this problem is not just as long as the English will be able to
solve There is no savior, we need to save ourselves, the Chinese
government can not represent all the Chinese people, the Chinese
government is only a part of the Chinese people and the thought is not
afraid of bullets, like me to find a new way of the Chinese people,
There is an urgent need for a way to turn ideas into practical tools
available to help themselves, so I need a tool that can quickly turn
idea into reality. At the same time, I also hope that this idea will
help the rest of the world have the same needs of the people.

I said that the focus is on multilingual support, which is summed up.

2016-10-05 2:00 GMT+08:00, mats petersson <mats at planetcatfish.com>:
> So, I'm not going to try to use google translate to make this into Chinese,
> because I don't think it will help much, but I'd like to clarify what
> exactly it is you want to achieve:
>
> 1. Implement C (or C++) in Chinese?
> 2. Allow programs written for the Chinese market to be developed in LLVM &
> Clang?
> 3. Something else?
>
> Option 1 seems a little meaningless to me, as there are only a handful of
> keywords in C, and a few more in C++ to learn. Yes, there is also a large
> amount of C and C++ libraries that go together with the compiler, but these
> are not (in general) the task of Clang directly. I would also argue that
> this is NOT a good way to go. Programming is very much an international
> activity, and although there are probably more people that natively speak &
> write Chinese than any other language in the world, outside of those with
> Chinese as a native language, the Chinese language is not well known, where
> English is a reasonably workable language in many parts of the world,
> whether the native language is Chinese, German, Korean, French, Russian or
> Arabic. A program written in Chinese would be completely unreadable by me
> and I would guess about 90% of the subscribers of this mailing list.
>
> Option 2 should already work. If there is a specific issue that doesn't
> work, that should be reported as a bug.
>
> Option 3 - please clarify what it is you want to achieve...
>
> I would also suggest that for someone wishing to work as a software
> developer for a large international company or a company trading on the
> international market, being able to communicate in English is almost
> certainly a great benefit to the career prospects, if not fully required. I
> say this as a person whose first language is NOT English. Note that there
> has been programming languages in "other than English", but they tend to
> not become very popular, for the reason I described above: Not many outside
> of the native language region are able to use that language. Yes, Chinese
> is a much bigger language than French of German, for example, but it's
> still not used by most other countries in general communication, which is
> the key point: software is an international business, it is an
> international community, and using one human language for communications
> with the community makes the group understand each other, re-use each
> others solutions and being able to help each other.
>
> --
> Mats
>
> On 30 September 2016 at 20:07, nk1988 via cfe-dev <cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org>
> wrote:
>
>> 尊敬的各位clang编译器开发者
>>        你们好
>> 我是一个业余的计算机技术爱好者,程序设计爱好者.我的英语很差,只能看懂一些简单的词汇.因此我想求助于你们,
>>         我想使用中文编程,我学习了很多程序语言,但都是英文,这让我理解困难,我担心编写出我自己都看不懂的代码,所以,我一直在寻求
>> 一种能进行中文编程的程序语言,经过我的搜索查找,我没找到一种中文编程语言,因此,我决定汉化或者中文化一门编程语言,
>> 比如性能好,使用人数最多的C/C++语言.
>>           经过我的研究,我发现如果仅仅只是改变一门编程语言的关键字和变量名根本无法实现中文编程,因为编译器不能识别.所以,我想,如
>> 果我能汉化这种程序语言的编译器,让编译器能理解中文,那我是否就能实现中文编程了呢?同时,因为开源的关系,还可以吸引更多有
>> 相同爱好和追求的朋友.但我的英文太差,llvm和clang的文档都没有中文版的,我根本无法学习和知晓到底该怎么做.我不知
>> 道从哪里开始进行这项工作.因此,我决定发邮件求助llvm和clang项目的创造者.希望能得到正确的指导和指引.谢谢.☺
>>
>>                                                  一个业余的计算机技术爱好者,程序设计爱好者
>>
>> 2016.9.30
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------------------------
>> 我用google翻译了我的信件,I use google translation of my letters☺🙂
>>
>> Dear everyone, clang compiler developers
>>        How are you?
>> I am a amateur computer technology enthusiast, programming lovers. My
>> English is very poor, can only understand some simple words, so I would
>> like to turn to you,
>>         I want to use Chinese programming, I learned a lot of programming
>> language, but are in English, which makes me understand the difficulties,
>> I
>> worry about writing my own do not understand the code, so I have been
>> looking for a Chinese programming Programming language, through my search
>> to find, I could not find a Chinese programming language, so I decided to
>> Chinese or a culture of programming languages, such as good performance,
>> the largest number of C / C + + language.
>>           After my research, I found that if only to change a programming
>> language keywords and variable names simply can not achieve Chinese
>> programming, because the compiler can not identify.So, I think, if I can
>> finish this program language compiler, So that the compiler can
>> understand
>> the Chinese, then I will be able to achieve the Chinese programming it?
>> At
>> the same time, because the relationship between open source, you can also
>> attract more friends who have the same hobbies and the pursuit of my poor
>> English, llvm and clang I do not know where to start this work.Therefore,
>> I
>> decided to e-mail help lvm and clang project creators.Want to get the
>> right
>> guidance and the right to know, and I do not know what to do, Guidelines.
>> Thank you
>>
>>                                                  A amateur computer
>> technology enthusiasts, programming lovers
>>
>> 2016.9.30
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> 以上为昨天的原文,但是得到Richard Smith
>> <https://plus.google.com/u/0/104920212855383888725?prsrc=4>的帮助与指引以后,
>> 于是我把相关问题重新发到这个邮件地址来.
>>
>>         经过一些思考,我想,如果clang和llvm能提供多语言支持的话,必定会扩大其影响力.
>> 使计算机程序和代码世界变得更多彩更丰富和更多可能性.llvm高度模块化的设计和灵活的实现让我看到了解决汉语编程的
>> 希望.我明白高级程序语言与底层机器语言关系不大.高级程序语言字符也是需要经过转译才能变成底层机器语言执行,
>> 也就是说高级程序语言所用的英语词汇与某种自然语言关系不大,如果把这种高级程序语言所用的英语词汇改变为其它等价的自然语言
>> 词汇也是可行的,所需要做的就是增加某一自然语言字符对照表.(这种字符对照表是可以自定义的,但前提是,
>> 所用字符需要与高级程序语言所用字符涵义等价).这样做,就可以实现多语言支持和本地化编程.不单是英语能实现计算机高级语言编程,
>> 汉语和世界上其它的语言也能实现,只要那个语言有相对应的字符对照表就行了.
>>
>>         当前,在汉语文化圈,还没有实现汉语编程,如果想成为程序员必须得先学会英语,
>> 但是很多人并不具备这个条件.他们既没时间也没精力和资源支持.他们的聪明才智并没得到有效的发掘.所以,我决定去解决实现汉语编程的关键重点难题,
>> 也就是翻译一门程序语言和它的编译器,我的英文非常差,因此我只能借助英汉词典来翻译.不过,好在一门程序语言的主要关键字符词汇不多,
>> 而阿拉伯数字和数学符号并不需要翻译为汉语.这让我有信心来实现这个想法.但是,我不知道该如何开始,所以,
>> 我才找到诸位开发者的邮件地址发出这个疑问.☺🙂
>>
>>
>>                            2016.10.1
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> This is the original text yesterday, but Richard Smith with the help and
>> guidance, so I re-issue the relevant issues to the e-mail address.
>>
>>         After some reflection, I think that if clang and llvm can provide
>> multi-language support, it will certainly expand its influence to make
>> computer programs and code the world more colorful and more
>> possibilities.llvm highly modular design And flexible implementation I
>> saw
>> the hope to solve the Chinese programming.I understand that the
>> high-level
>> programming language and low-level machine language little.High-level
>> programming language characters also need to be translated into the
>> underlying machine language can be implemented, that is used in
>> high-level
>> programming language Of the English vocabulary and a natural language is
>> not, if the high-level programming language used in English vocabulary is
>> equivalent to other natural language vocabulary is feasible, all need to
>> do
>> is to add a natural language character table. (This character-matching
>> table can be customized, provided that the characters used need to be
>> equivalent to those used by the high-level programming language.) In this
>> way, multilingual support and localized programming can be achieved.
>> High-level language programming, Chinese and other languages ​​in the
>> world
>> can be achieved, as long as that language has a corresponding character
>> table on the line.
>>
>>         At present, in the Chinese cultural circle, has not yet realized
>> the Chinese programming, if you want to become a programmer must first
>> learn English, but many people do not have this condition they have
>> neither
>> the time nor the energy and resources to support their intelligence. So I
>> decided to solve the key to achieve the Chinese programming key problems,
>> that is, a translation of a programming language and its compiler, my
>> English is very poor, so I can only use English-Chinese dictionary to
>> translate.However, Fortunately, the main key words in a programming
>> language is not much, and Arabic numerals and mathematical symbols do not
>> need to be translated into Chinese, which gives me the confidence to
>> realize this idea, but I do not know how to start, Find the email
>> addresses
>> of the developers who sent you this question
>>
>>
>>                                 2016.10.1
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cfe-dev mailing list
>> cfe-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev
>>
>>
>
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