<div dir="auto"><div>Yeah, I can't remember the last time I did a review by email. But I'm sure that they were replies to a commit that broke our bots, and not an actual review of a pull request.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Worse, I think if someone does a review by email and doesn't copy me directly, I won't even notice. </div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 23 Apr 2021, 19:08 Chris Lattner via llvm-dev, <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">I think it makes sense to phase out the email review path as well - it is better to have a single way to do things, and Phabricator is where our center of gravity is.<div><br></div><div>-Chris<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 23, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Krzysztof Parzyszek via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks for the feedback. I didn’t take accessibility concerns into account. I’ll make sure to mention it if I decide to create a proposal (which seems likely).<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Consolas">--<span> </span></span><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Consolas"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Consolas">Krzysztof Parzyszek <span> </span><a href="mailto:kparzysz@quicinc.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">kparzysz@quicinc.com</span></a> AI tools development<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b>From:</b><span> </span>Philip Reames <<a href="mailto:listmail@philipreames.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">listmail@philipreames.com</a>><span> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday, April 23, 2021 12:26 PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Krzysztof Parzyszek <<a href="mailto:kparzysz@quicinc.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">kparzysz@quicinc.com</a>>; llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>[EXT] Re: [llvm-dev] Anyone doing code reviews via mailing lists?<u></u><u></u></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><p>If you want to propose this, please move it to a top level thread for visibility. <u></u><u></u></p><p>(My thoughts inline to help you refine your proposal.)<u></u><u></u></p><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On 4/23/21 9:55 AM, Krzysztof Parzyszek via llvm-dev wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I think we should phase-out email reviews in favor of doing it directly via Phabricator.<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">My reasons:<u></u><u></u></div><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in"><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Phabricator allows for both pre- and post-commit reviews. You can “raise concern” with any commit, including those that did not have a pre-commit review on phab.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The email-phabricator integration is still deficient despite a lot of effort having been put into it. Moreover, it’s not likely that it will ever be fully functional.<u></u><u></u></li><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Email communication is “fragile”. This one is based more on my personal experience, but even simply following a discussion on llvm-dev has been difficult. I now have to use Outlook (corporate reasons…) and Outlook fails at keeping email threads together. Replies to the same tread are scattered into a mini-forest instead staying as a single tree. There are issues with every email client formatting the replies differently: top-post mixed with bottom-post mixed with inline text, with people quoting 500 lines of text only to insert a single-line response, and so on, and so forth. Some of it is due to my use of Outlook, some of it is independent from it. This “infinite flexibility” of email structure is the reason why I doubt that the Phabricator integration will ever work.<u></u><u></u></li></ol></blockquote><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Phabricator is also fragile unfortunately. I find phabricators inline discussions to be very hard to follow for anything which becomes involved. As such, I tend to default to phab, but quickly move to email if discussion gets complicated.<br><br><u></u><u></u></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><ol start="4" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in"><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Phabricator’s interface makes every review look the same, is readable, and doesn’t make it easy to unintentionally clutter it with junk.<u></u><u></u></li></ol></blockquote><p>As someone with vision restrictions, please be careful about this line of argument. One of the major advantages of email is that I can use my own client at whatever zoom/scale I want. Phab "sorta works" from an accessibility perspective, but frankly is inferior to plain old email. I frequently end up reading phabricator emails, and then replying through the web interface. <u></u><u></u></p><p>I'm just point this out because I find that visual appear is often rated much more highly by some folks than others. Personally, functionality is pretty much the only thing I care about. <u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><ol start="4" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in"><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in"><li style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Finally, it seems like nowadays it’s easier to create a Phabricator account than to sign up to the mailing lists…<u></u><u></u></li></ol></ol><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Consolas">--<span> </span></span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:8pt;font-family:Consolas">Krzysztof Parzyszek <span> </span><a href="mailto:kparzysz@quicinc.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><span style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">kparzysz@quicinc.com</span></a> AI tools development</span><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-width:1pt;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><b>From:</b><span> </span>llvm-dev<span> </span><a href="mailto:llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org></a><span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Friday, April 23, 2021 11:01 AM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Hubert Tong<span> </span><a href="mailto:hubert.reinterpretcast@gmail.com" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><hubert.reinterpretcast@gmail.com></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span> </span>llvm-dev<span> </span><a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>[EXT] Re: [llvm-dev] Anyone doing code reviews via mailing lists?<u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 8:57 AM Hubert Tong via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:25 AM Christian Kühnel via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">So it looks like the information we have on the mailing list and in Phabricator is diverging, as those emails do not get parsed back into Phabricator.<u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I recall noticing that Phabricator also doesn't emit inline code change suggestions into the e-mail record.<u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Yes: which is an indication that not all the content is on the mailing-list either :(<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">-- <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Mehdi<u></u><u></u></div></div><blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-width:1pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></blockquote></div></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br><br><u></u><u></u></div><pre style="margin:0in;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0in;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">LLVM Developers mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0in;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre 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