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<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">Hi Zola,</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">thanks for the response.</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">People brought forth reasons why
we should not have git scripts in the repo.</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">I'm not sure about that but as
long as we don't see other people coming forward,</font></p>
<font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">we don't need it in the repo. I can
have a private copy after all.<br>
</font>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono">Thanks again,</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono"> Johannes<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Hack Nerd Font Mono"><br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/15/20 2:16 PM, Zola Bridges via
llvm-dev wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFXSYz1=rvQZz5_o86nNkKP+5abFp+xs=LyFc8XkuZeE1L2Zsw@mail.gmail.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Hey everyone,
I missed the discussion on this thread after I submitted the patch, so I'm
chiming in a bit late.
I'm totally okay if folks want to add git-llvm back to the repo. (It sounds
like the other scripts, git-svnup, git-revertsvn can remain deleted.
Correct me if I'm wrong there.)
My understanding was that the scripts were primarily a tool used during the
git-svn migration and thus were no longer useful and so the reason to
delete them would be to get rid of unused code/scripts. An earlier
discussion on improving the tool ended with folks suggesting it wasn't
useful to add functionality to it since it was a workflow that we
were moving away from and I later found that references to git-llvm in the
documentation had been removed, so those are other reasons I had the
impression it was basically dead code.
I didn't consider that other folks would still be using git-llvm in their
personal workflows which, in hindsight, I should have. Sorry about that!
The last reason the delete happened was that there were no objections until
after the patch was submitted. :) I'll chalk that up to it being difficult
to keep up with llvm-dev since it's very active. I've missed threads I
meant to contribute to in the past.
If folks want to add this back to the repo, I'm not opposed.
Zola Bridges
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 1:49 AM James Henderson via llvm-dev <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">FWIW, I'm not against people using the script if there's a good reason for
it, but I'd be somewhat opposed to mandating it, as that could easily get
confusing for people like me who work in both downstream and upstream repos
who wouldn't want to use the scripts downstream - it would be fairly
straightforward to forget to use it/use it incorrectly, and depending on
what the script actually does, this could cause various unwanted side
effects, which may not even be noticed immediately.
On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 23:30, Eric Christopher via llvm-dev <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think the only reason is whether or not we want to encourage anything
as part of them or whether we want "llvm specific" commit
advice/instructions/etc where we want people to use these for sure.
That said, git isn't the most command line friendly of VCSs for me so if
we want to have something that makes things just a little easier I'm down,
but would like to see what we expect them to do documented (here?) and ...
documented (on the web page).
Thoughts?
-eric
On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 3:25 PM Johannes Doerfert <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johannesdoerfert@gmail.com">johannesdoerfert@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">For some reason this thread seems to be gone in a wrong direction. I'm
sorry for that.
The discussion on the RFC asked for a reason to keep the script, I think
we heard reasons to do so (due to branches).
Now, I was unable to determine if the `git llvm` scripts was removed
"just as part of the bunch" or if we expect a problem with the script.
If it is the former, are there reasons against adding it back?
Thanks,
Johannes
On 5/12/20 5:13 PM, David Blaikie wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 2:56 PM Johannes Doerfert <
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:johannesdoerfert@gmail.com">johannesdoerfert@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">TBH, all I initially asked for, still ask for, is a reason why `git
llvm` was being removed.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Fair enough - and 24 hours later no one had replied to your inquiry - I
don't think that's a huge deal, to be honest - I've certainly had to
follow-up with higher email latencies than that pretty regularly. Eric
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">had
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">replied to someone else's question pretty reasonably "what do I use
instead?" "git push" (what most people have been using since the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">transition)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Your email was the only one that hinted on a
reason.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think the original proposal & response covered that - they seem(ed)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">like
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">dead code ("My understanding of these tools is that they were useful
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">for
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">when we were migrating between Git and SVN, but now, since the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">migration is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">complete, they can be deleted as they are either unnecessary or there
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">are
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">other more common workflow options (ie git llvm push --> git push).") -
some folks agreed, and time was given in case anyone had use cases they
wanted to bring up & didn't.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">(more below)
On 5/12/20 4:00 PM, David Blaikie wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 1:50 PM Johannes Doerfert via llvm-dev <
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:
>
>> @Zola, Eric,
>>
>>
>> I really feel the communication and reasoning here is
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">problematic.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> From my perspective, you removed stuff "we don't need", ignoring
whether
>> it is used, and then let people figure out how to deal with the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">result.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> What I most dislike about the process most is how questions and
concerns
>> are then ignored or played down.
>>
> Honestly, I think Zola did more than I'd have expected to be done
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">for
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">this
> - sending out the proposal (to llvm-dev, not just llvm-commits,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">even) &
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> > waiting a week for feedback.
Sure. That is why I did not mention the process that lead to the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">situation.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think my email/questions are well in line with post-commit review
standards but people seem to disagree.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I don't think your first email was unreasonable/not sure anyone's
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">saying it
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">was unreasonable?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Suggesting that LLVM developers (the, apparently rather small (based
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">on
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> > feedback from before/after this change) number of them) migrate
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">to the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> > standard git functionality for contributing to git projects seems
like it's
> in line with discussions I recall seeing before and after the git
migration
> - that the git-llvm scripts were migration tools (there was some
discussion
> about whether they might be used for more post-migration, to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">enforce
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> > certain constraints, etc - but those ideas were not accepted/moved
forward
> with).
I recall no decision being made back in October 2019 and that we will
see how it goes. Till now I thought it went fine, or at least I
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">haven't
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">understood what needed fixing.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think the migration went fine, yes - but these scripts seem to me
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">like a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">vestige of the hybrid situation & no longer needed/especially
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">beneficial.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I have some concern about adding these scripts back in as they may
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">lead to
> greater divergence in developer experience and/or become less
relevant over
> time and a weird thing for newcomers to stumble over, perhaps.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">But I
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">don't
> feel /that/ strongly, if other folks particularly prefer using
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">them,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">they
> seem mostly harmless.
I don't think I understand your concerns. Could you elaborate what
divergence you can see in the future? FWIW, if the scripts are broken
and people stumble over them it means no one takes care of them and
removal is adequate.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I'd generally prefer to remove things sooner rather than later,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">personally.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I believe some of the original motivation was an offline discussion
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">about
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">adding more features (to trim unnecessary Phabricator fields, I
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">believe) to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">them & a response was that they're not really used/encouraged & so
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">adding
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">features wouldn't be especially valuable - so the thought was to go the
other way, rather than keeping them around, and building processes that
might only work with the scripts & then being let down when those
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">processes
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">aren't adhered to by most of the community (because they're not using
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">scripts) it'd be better to remove them and standardize practices on the
plain git tools.
- Dave
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Thanks,
Johannes
> - Dave
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Johannes
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/12/20 2:10 PM, Keane, Erich via llvm-dev wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, if you do your development in git-branches, it is a little
more than that. IT ends up being:
>>
>> git push origin HEAD:master.
>>
>> Which is somewhat easy to mess up. For example, I inverted the
HEAD/master at one point and ended up creating a branch named “HEAD”
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">at
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">one point.
>>
>> From: llvm-dev <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev-bounces@lists.llvm.org></a> On Behalf Of Eric Christopher via
llvm-dev
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2020 11:59 AM
>> To: Hiroshi Yamauchi <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yamauchi@google.com"><yamauchi@google.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yamauchi@google.com"><yamauchi@google.com></a>
>> Cc: llvm-dev <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
>> Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] RFC: Deleting git-svn folder (git-llvm,
git-svnrevert, git-svnup)
>>
>> Just push :)
>>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2020, 8:46 AM Hiroshi Yamauchi
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:yamauchi@google.com">yamauchi@google.com</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yamauchi@google.com"><mailto:yamauchi@google.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:yamauchi@google.comwrote:"><yamauchi@google.com
wrote:
></a>> I was also using "git llvm push" to commit, sort of out of habit.
What's a recommended, alternative way to push?
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:57 AM Johannes Doerfert via llvm-dev
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>> wrote:
>>
>> I was actually using `git llvm` in my daily workflow.
>>
>> Could you explain why we want people to move away from that
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">script?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> In addition to the convenience, it prevented me from accidentally
creating a new branch (which I did before with push once).
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Johannes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/20 11:43 AM, Zola Bridges via llvm-dev wrote:
>>
>> Deleted this morning. Thanks!
>>
>> Zola Bridges
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 2:35 PM Eric Christopher <
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:echristo@gmail.com">echristo@gmail.com</a>>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:echristo@gmail.com"><echristo@gmail.com></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:echristo@gmail.com"><mailto:echristo@gmail.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:echristo@gmail.com"><echristo@gmail.com></a>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Giving at least one explicit:
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds good to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 12:01 PM Zola Bridges via llvm-dev <
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is a link to the patch: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://reviews.llvm.org/D79348">https://reviews.llvm.org/D79348</a>
>>
>>
>>
>> Zola Bridges
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:50 AM Zola Bridges <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zbrid@google.com"><zbrid@google.com></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zbrid@google.com"><zbrid@google.com></a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zbrid@google.com"><mailto:zbrid@google.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:zbrid@google.com"><zbrid@google.com></a> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to delete this folder of svn to git migration tools.
>>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/tree/master/llvm/utils/git-svn">https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/tree/master/llvm/utils/git-svn</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>>
>>
>> My understanding of these tools is that they were useful for
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">when we
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> were migrating between Git and SVN, but now, since the migration
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">is
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> complete, they can be deleted as they are either unnecessary or
there are
>>
>> other more common workflow options (ie git llvm push --> git
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">push).
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>>
>>
>> - Is there any reason these scripts should continue to exist
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">that
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> >>
>> I'm not aware of?
>>
>> - I'd like to delete these next Monday. Is that timeline
>>
>> unacceptable to anyone?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Zola Bridges
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev">https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev</a>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev">https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev</a>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:listllvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">listllvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org"><mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org></a>
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:listllvm-dev@lists.llvm.orghttps://">listllvm-dev@lists.llvm.orghttps://</a>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>
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>>
>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
LLVM Developers mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev">https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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