<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Chandler,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The data-invariant feature sounds great but what about the general case? When performance tuning code, people sometimes need the ability to reliably generate CMOV, and right now the best advice is either “use inline assembly” or “keep refactoring until CMOV is emited” (and hope that future compilers continue to generate CMOV).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Given that a patch already exists to reliably generate CMOV, are there any good arguments against adding the feature?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Dave</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:21 PM, Chandler Carruth <<a href="mailto:chandlerc@google.com" class="">chandlerc@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 9:18 AM Finkel, Hal J. via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="">On 9/12/19 5:06 AM, David Zarzycki via llvm-dev wrote:<br class="">
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">I think adding a builtin to force CMOV or similar instructions on other architectures is long overdue. It’s generally useful, even if one isn’t mitigating speculative execution.</blockquote><p class=""><br class="">
</p><p class="">I believe that you can currently get this effect using __builtin_unpredictable in Clang. __builtin_unpredictable wasn't added for this purpose, and it's a hint not a forced behavior, but I believe that it causes the backend to prefer cmov to branches during
lowering.</p></div></blockquote><div class="">I want to strongly advise against relying on this for anything to do with cryptography. There are a lot of optimizations that I think will undo this....</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Sadly, I don't think we have any builtins that I think are reliable in this way. I agree this is a critically important thing, but it isn't as simple as exposing cmov IMO.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a class="gmail_plusreply cremed" id="plusReplyChip-0" href="mailto:mattdr@google.com" tabindex="-1">+Matthew Riley</a> on my team is actually hoping to start working on getting a real data-invariant programming model moving for C++ and part of that will involve adding support to LLVM as well, so I suspect he'd be interested in this topic as well. Not sure what the timelines on any of our lpans are at this point though, so can't really promise much.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For now, I'd really suggest using the techniques used by BoringSSL and OpenSSL. Sadly, these predominantly rely on assembly. They do have some constructs to use C/C++ code and ensure it remains data-invariant, but it isn't because the constructs are actually reliable. Instead, they have testing infrastructure that they continually run and that checks the specific instruction stream produced by the compiler. Given the current state, that's about the only reliable approach I know of.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">-Chandler</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class=""> -Hal<br class="">
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<div class="">On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:30 PM, Daan Sprenkels via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank" class="cremed">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class=""><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">PS.
Perhaps, would there be interest to add such a feature to LLVM?</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">I
found this repository on GitHub[2], adding a `__builtin_ct_choose`</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">intrinsic
to clang. But as far as I know, this has never been upstreamed.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">[1]:
Chandler Carruth described this trick at CppCon15:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><</span><a href="https://youtu.be/nXaxk27zwlk?t=2472" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="cremed">https://youtu.be/nXaxk27zwlk?t=2472</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">>.
See it in practice:</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><</span><a href="https://godbolt.org/z/UMPeku" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="cremed">https://godbolt.org/z/UMPeku</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">></span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">[2]:
<</span><a href="https://github.com/lmrs2/ct_choose" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="cremed">https://github.com/lmrs2/ct_choose</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">>,</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><</span><a href="https://github.com/lmrs2/llvm/commit/8f9a4d952100ae03d06f10aee237bf8b3331da89" style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="cremed">https://github.com/lmrs2/llvm/commit/8f9a4d952100ae03d06f10aee237bf8b3331da89</a><span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">>.</span><br style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Menlo-Regular;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">Later
published at S&P18.</span></div>
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<pre class="">_______________________________________________
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<pre cols="72" class="">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
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