<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 16, 2017, at 3:25 PM, Hal Finkel <<a href="mailto:hfinkel@anl.gov" class="">hfinkel@anl.gov</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/16/2017 04:13 PM, Adam Nemet
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:2A017F54-ED5D-4B62-A774-CCCED49E2206@apple.com" type="cite" class="">
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<div class="">On Mar 15, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Adam Nemet <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:anemet@apple.com" class="">anemet@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
On Mar 15, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Hal Finkel <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hfinkel@anl.gov" class="">hfinkel@anl.gov</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/15/2017 04:05 PM,
Adam Nemet wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:C5B19D31-4651-4840-B9AC-C4F6FD1BD04D@apple.com" type="cite" class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 15, 2017, at 2:00 PM, Hal
Finkel <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:hfinkel@anl.gov" class="">hfinkel@anl.gov</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/15/2017
01:47 PM, Adam Nemet wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:E74F3BD7-4CF9-4CF7-8657-BC4776A71D03@apple.com" type="cite" class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 15, 2017, at
11:36 AM, Mehdi Amini <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mehdi.amini@apple.com" class="">mehdi.amini@apple.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;"><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 15, 2017,
at 10:13 AM, Hal Finkel via
cfe-dev <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
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On 03/15/2017 12:10 PM,
Adam Nemet via llvm-dev
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:FAB9D19D-F8F0-4364-BE54-5203FFB1295E@apple.com" type="cite" class="" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
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-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);">Relevant
to this discussion is <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://bugs.llvm.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25721" class="">http://bugs.llvm.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25721</a> (-ffp-contract=fast
does not work with LTO).
I am working on adding
function attributes for
fp-contract=fast which
should fix this.</blockquote>
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!important;">Great!</span><br class="" style="font-family:
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">A function
attribute would be a strict
improvement over today: LLVM
can’t do contraction today.
But actually I’m not sure if
it is the long term right
choice: attributes don’t
combine well with inlining for
instance. You mentioned FMF
earlier, why don’t we have a
FMF to allow contraction?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">OK, I thought that the
prerequisite for that was a fast-math
pragma which I don’t think is
something we have (I want to be able
to specify contract=fast on smaller
granularity than module). But now
that I think more about, we should be
able to turn a user function attribute
into FMF in the front-end which is the
most flexible.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
I agree, a FMF is the way to go and we can
then control it with the pragma. We can use
the STDC FP_CONTRACT pragma for contraction;</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Just to confirm, do you mean to
introduce a “fast” option to the pragma, e.g.:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">#pragma STDC FP_CONTRACT FAST</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
That's a good point. If we don't add something like
this, then we'd be able to turn the fast mode off with
the pragma, but then not be able to turn it back on ;)<br class="">
<br class="">
So, yes, except that I'm somewhat hesitant to invade
the 'STDC' space with vendor extensions. If we
generally introduce a pragma to control FMFs, maybe we
should just use that instead? I don't have a clear
idea on the syntax, but for example, if we had some
pragma that let us do<br class="">
<br class="">
#pragma clang fast_math or #pragma clang fast_math
nnan(off) contract(on) or whatever then we could use
that. What do you think?<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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</div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
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auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">That looks
great; it nicely matches the internal representation. Let
me take a stab at this.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thinking more about this, I am back to thinking that a
function attribute is the better solution for this than FMF,
at least before inlining.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Consider the standard example where we want this to
trigger: an overloaded addition and multiplier operator for a
vector class.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">In this case, we want the fadd and the fmul in the inlined
functions to have the FMF as well but we don’t necessarily
want to mark the overloaded operators with the pragma; we may
be only comfortable contracting at this call site.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You don’t have this problem if you mark the containing
function FP-contractable. Effectively what we want is to
outline the block within the pragma into a function and tag it
with the attribute.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">During inlining we can still transform the function
attribute into FMF.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">So I think I am going back to implementing fp-contract=fast
as a function attribute as the first step unless there are any
objections.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Are you saying this works because we don't block inlining when
functions attributes don't match or update the function attributes
to be more conservative when inlining? This is specifically one of
the issues we were avoiding by using FMFs. Frankly, the same issue
comes up with other fast-math properties, and I don't see why we
should handle this differently. I think that I'd prefer you stick
with the new flag.<br class=""></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>OK, so in the example:</div><div><br class=""></div><div>#pragma clang fast_math contract_fast(on)</div><div> vect v1 = v2 * v3 + v4;</div><div>#pragma clang fast_math contract_fast(off)</div><div><br class=""></div><div>where all the operands are vectors with the typical implementation for the overload operators, we wouldn’t fp-contract unless the operator definitions use contract_fast too?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Adam</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
<br class="">
-Hal<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:2A017F54-ED5D-4B62-A774-CCCED49E2206@apple.com" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Adam</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
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</div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
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0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Adam</div>
<br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px;
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<blockquote type="cite" class="" style="font-family:
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0px;">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""><br class="">
-Hal<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:C5B19D31-4651-4840-B9AC-C4F6FD1BD04D@apple.com" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Thanks,</div>
<div class="">Adam</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">I
also think that having a "fast math" pragma
is also a good idea (the fact that we can
currently only specify fast-math settings on
a translation-unit level is somewhat
problematic).<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:E74F3BD7-4CF9-4CF7-8657-BC4776A71D03@apple.com" type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:
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<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Also, IIUC, the
function attribute as well as
a FMF wouldn’t apply to the
“ON” setting but only to the
“FAST” mode (no way to
distinguish source level
statement in llvm IR).</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="">
Right. We still have the existing fmuladd
intrinsic method for dealing with the "ON"
setting.<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:E74F3BD7-4CF9-4CF7-8657-BC4776A71D03@apple.com" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Yes.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Adam</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:
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after-white-space;">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">— </div>
<div class="">Mehdi</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote cite="mid:FAB9D19D-F8F0-4364-BE54-5203FFB1295E@apple.com" type="cite" class="" style="font-family:
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0px; background-color:
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Also now
that we have backend
optimization remarks, I
am planning to report
missed optimization when
we can’t fuse FMAs due
“fast” not being on.
This will show up in
the opt-viewer. Then
the user can opt in
either with the
command-line switch or
the new function
attribute.</div>
</blockquote>
<br class="" style="font-family:
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<span class="" style="font-family:
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12px; font-style: normal;
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text-align: start;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255); float:
none; display: inline
!important;">That seems
useful.</span><br class="" style="font-family:
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<br class="" style="font-family:
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<span class="" style="font-family:
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0px; background-color:
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none; display: inline
!important;">Thanks again,</span><br class="" style="font-family:
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<span class="" style="font-family:
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text-align: start;
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rgb(255, 255, 255); float:
none; display: inline
!important;">Hal</span><br class="" style="font-family:
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0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<br class="" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal;
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text-align: start;
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0px; background-color:
rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<blockquote cite="mid:FAB9D19D-F8F0-4364-BE54-5203FFB1295E@apple.com" type="cite" class="" style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size:
12px; font-style: normal;
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<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Adam<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On
Mar 15, 2017, at
6:27 AM, Renato
Golin via
cfe-dev <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">Folks,<br class="">
<br class="">
I've been
asking around
people about
the state of
FP contract,
which<br class="">
seems to be
"on" but it's
not really
behaving like
it, at least
not as<br class="">
I would
expect:<br class="">
<br class="">
int foo(float
a, float b,
float c) {
return a*b+c;
}<br class="">
<br class="">
$ clang
-target
aarch64-linux-gnu
-O2 -S fma.c
-ffp-contract=on
-o -<br class="">
(...)<br class="">
fmul s0, s0,
s1<br class="">
fadd s0, s0,
s2<br class="">
(...)<br class="">
<br class="">
$ clang
-target
aarch64-linux-gnu
-O2 -S fma.c
-ffp-contract=fast
-o -<br class="">
(...)<br class="">
fmadd s0, s0,
s1, s2<br class="">
(...)<br class="">
<br class="">
I'm not sure
this works in
Fortran
either, but
defaulting to
"on" when<br class="">
(I believe)
the language
should allow
contraction
and not doing
it is<br class="">
not a good
default.<br class="">
<br class="">
i haven't
worked out
what would be
necessary to
make it work
on a<br class="">
case-by-case
basis (what
kinds of
fusions does C
allow?) to
make sure<br class="">
we don't do
all or
nothing, but
if we don't
want to start
that<br class="">
conversation
now, then I'd
recommend we
just turn it
all the way to
11<br class="">
(like GCC) and
let people
turn it off if
they really
mean it.<br class="">
<br class="">
The rationale
is that:<br class="">
<br class="">
* Contracted
operations
increase
precision
(less rounding
steps)<br class="">
* It performs
equal or
faster on all
architectures
I know (true
everywhere?)<br class="">
* Users
already expect
that
(certainly,
GCC users do)<br class="">
* Makes us
look good on
benchmarks :)<br class="">
<br class="">
A recent
SPEC2k6
comparison
Linaro did for
AArch64,
enabling<br class="">
-ffp-contract=fast took the edge of GCC in a number of cases and in<br class="">
some of them
made them
comparable in
performance.
So, any
reasons not<br class="">
to?<br class="">
<br class="">
If we go with
it, we need to
first finish
the job that
Sebastian was<br class="">
dong on the
test-suite,
then just turn
it on by
default. A
second<br class="">
stage would be
to add
tests/benchmarks
that
explicitly
test FP<br class="">
precision, so
that we have
some extra
guarantee that
we're doing
the<br class="">
right thing.<br class="">
<br class="">
Opinions?<br class="">
<br class="">
cheers,<br class="">
--renato<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72" style="font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
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</div>
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</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</blockquote>
<br class="">
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
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