<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 15, 2016, at 11:59 PM, Ristow, Warren <<a href="mailto:warren.ristow@sony.com" class="">warren.ristow@sony.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hi,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></a></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Thanks for the quick feedback. I see your points, but I have a few questions/comments. I'll start at the end of the previous post:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">> ...<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">> I think these are valuable problems to solve, but you should tackle them piece by piece:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">> 1) the clang part of overriding the individual FMF and emitting the right IR is the first thing to fix.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">> 2) the backend is still using the global UnsafeFPMath and it should be killed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I addressed this point (2) for the reciprocal aspect in the patch, but of course that wasn't useful without doing something about (1).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Regarding (1), over at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://reviews.llvm.org/D26708#596610" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://reviews.llvm.org/D26708#596610</a>, David made the same point that it should be done in Clang. I can understand that, but I wonder whether having the concept of the 'fast' flag in the IR that implies all the other FMF makes sense? I'm not seeing a good reason for it, but since this is very new to me, I can easily imagine I'm missing the big picture.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">For example, in the LLVM IR (<a href="http://llvm.org/docs/LangRef.html#fast-math-flags" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://llvm.org/docs/LangRef.html#fast-math-flags</a>) the fast-math flags 'nnan', 'ninf', 'nsz', 'arcp' and 'fast’ are defined. Except for 'fast', each of these has a fairly specific definition of what they mean. For example, for 'arcp':<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> arcp => "Allow optimizations to use the reciprocal of an argument rather<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> than perform division."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">'fast' is unusual, in that it describes a fairly generic set of aggressive floating-point optimizations:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> fast => "Allow algebraically equivalent transformations that may dramatically<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> change results in floating point (e.g. reassociate). This flag implies<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> all the others."<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Very loosely, 'fast' means "all the aggressive FP-transformations that are not controlled by one of the other 4, plus it implies all the other 4". If for terminology, we call those additional aggressive optimizations 'aggr', then we have:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> 'fast' == 'aggr' + 'nnan' + 'ninf' + 'nsz' + 'arcp'<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">So as I see it, if we want to disable only one of the other ones (like 'arcp', in my case), there isn't any way to express that with these IR flags defined this way. In short, we cannot turn on all the flags besides 'arcp'. To do that, what we want is that somehow for the Clang switches:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> '-ffast-math -fno-reciprocal-math'<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">to ultimately result in LLVM IR that has the following flags on in appropriate FP ops:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> 'aggr' + 'nnan' + 'ninf' + ‘nsz'</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Make sense, I missed that we can’t *subtract* from fast at the IR level.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I wouldn’t be opposed to have something along the line of “aggr”, but there is a tradeoff: some transformation may be harder to guard with this model.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Maybe that could be a starting point: changing the “UnsafeAlgebra” bit in the FMF to be “aggr” you mention and replace all the query to FastMathFlags::UnsafeAlgebra() to return true if all the bits are set in the Flags. This alone should be nothing more than a mechanical change I believe.</div><div>The important part is then auditing all the users of UnsafeAlgebra() in the middle end and check if they can be “downgraded” to aggr safely: i.e. if they don’t need aggr *and* another flag.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>— </div><div>Mehdi</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">But I don't see a way to express 'aggr' in the IR. We could do this, if we change the definition of the IR 'fast' flag to remove that sentence about implying all the others:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> fast => "Allow algebraically equivalent transformations that may dramatically<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> change results in floating point (e.g. reassociate).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">(If we do something like that, we may want to change the name from 'fast' to something else (like 'aggr'), to avoid tying it too closely to the concept of the '-ffast-math' switch.)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As an aside, I don't know if the "reassociate" example is the only other transformation that's allowed by 'fast' (I presume it isn't), but I think reassociation would be better expressed by a separate flag, which could then be controlled independently via '-f[no]-associative-math' switch. Not having that flag exist separately in the FMF is the origin of PR27372. But creating that flag and using it in the appropriate places would still run into these problems of 'fast' implying all the others, which would make it impossible to disable reassociation while leaving all the other FMF transformations enabled.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">To ask a concrete question using the current definition of 'fast' (which includes enabling reassociation, as the LLVM IR documentation of FMF says), how can we express in the IR that reciprocal-transformations are not allowed, but reassociation is allowed?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">So the bottom line is that I do see there are issues in Clang that are relevant. But as long as 'fast' means "'aggr' plus all the other FMF transformations", I don't see how we can effectively disable a subset of those other FMF transformations (while leaving 'aggr' transformations, such as reassociation, enabled). With that in mind, my patch took one step in having 'fast' no longer imply all the others.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">-Warren</span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>