<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 19, 2016, at 4:00 PM, Renato Golin <<a href="mailto:renato.golin@linaro.org" class="">renato.golin@linaro.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">Perhaps it helps to know that I have access to the machines and have helped debug many of the current problems. I'm not speaking from the outside, guessing how hard things are. </p><p dir="ltr" class="">I also think you are assuming a lot about where services can be hosted and at which cost (labour, not hardware). </p></div></blockquote><div>It seems you’re assuming as much about me as you think I’m assuming about this whole thing...</div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">So, unless you are volunteering to take care of the whole infrastructure, I suggest taking the opinion of people that are working with it a but more seriously.</p></div></blockquote><div>Sorry, I appreciate your opinion, but it is still not “facts” or “data”. When you write “it will save *a lot* of maintenance”, I raise my eyebrows. I’ll take what you write seriously when it’ll be be phrased less qualitatively and more quantitatively, i.e. for instance I would ask less if you wrote “currently volunteers (Anton, Tanya, whoever) spends on average 5h a week to fix problem purely related to the *repositories* (not the video, not the Debian packages, etc.) and moving to an external host would save totally these 5h/week”.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>— </div><div>Mehdi</div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><p dir="ltr" class="">However, I'd still trust github over anyone of us any day, to host our repositories. Any one of us could leave the community at any time, but github, as a company, with many employees and a successful business, will probably outlast any if us in our current employments. </p><p dir="ltr" class="">From that point of view, the foundation would be better betting their money on a stable product than on individual volunteers. While it's cool that some people volunteer, you can't base such a critical system on it. </p><p dir="ltr" class="">Cheers, <br class="">
Renato </p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 19 Jul 2016 11:47 p.m., "Mehdi Amini" <<a href="mailto:mehdi.amini@apple.com" class="">mehdi.amini@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br class="">
> On Jul 19, 2016, at 3:32 PM, Renato Golin <<a href="mailto:renato.golin@linaro.org" class="">renato.golin@linaro.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">
><br class="">
> On 19 July 2016 at 23:16, Mehdi Amini <<a href="mailto:mehdi.amini@apple.com" class="">mehdi.amini@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
>>> In the past, we were hit by web spiders that ignored completely the<br class="">
>>> robots.txt file. Anton has made that better, but it can escalate if<br class="">
>>> the spider realise we blocked them. There are ways to work around, but<br class="">
>>> not without accidentally blocking innocent people (mostly in China).<br class="">
>><br class="">
>> That’s not relevant: this is about the WWW server, it does not have to be related to the hosting the repos.<br class="">
><br class="">
> No, this is about hosting the SVN server. The SVN view was disabled<br class="">
> for months this year before we could really see what was going on.<br class="">
<br class="">
I don’t believe the online SVN viewer has to be on the server that hosts the repo that everyone access: the WWW server could mirror the SVN to provide local access to the viewer if needed (hence why I view this as unrelated to hosting source code).<br class="">
<br class="">
>> Moving the SVN repo does not solve hosting videos, Debian packages, etc.<br class="">
>> I suspect most of the bandwidth does not come from `svn up` or `git pull`.<br class="">
><br class="">
> They share the same bandwidth, and sometimes the same server. It is relevant.<br class="">
<br class="">
Well, “they share the same bandwidth” is exactly what I mean by “conflating the issues”.<br class="">
They don’t *have to* share the same bandwidth. Hosting repos could be setup totally separated from hosting WWW.<br class="">
You need to account things properly.<br class="">
<br class="">
> One thing making SVN slow was the amount of Debian packages being<br class="">
> downloaded form the same place.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
>> Like… proper hooks?<br class="">
><br class="">
> If we can work around it, and it seems we can, this is not such a big issue.<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
>> You’re again conflating svn/git and hosting “binaries and videos”. I don’t think we ever planned to host these on github?<br class="">
><br class="">
> No, but they all share bandwidth. We moved videos to Youtube to<br class="">
> offload the bandwidth, and moving the code to GitHub shares the same<br class="">
> mindset.<br class="">
<br class="">
It shares the same mindset *only* if the code itself is a significant bandwidth consumer, otherwise no it does not make sense.<br class="">
<br class="">
><br class="">
><br class="">
>> Possibly, I don’t know, but that’s exactly why I asked for first hand data on the subject (i.e. Anton and/or Tanya) about hosting the git/SVN repos themselves, instead of hand-wavy “I believe” discussions.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Bear in mind that I gave you facts (bandwidth problems, turned off SVN<br class="">
> services, constant breakdowns, expertise in handling traffic, backup<br class="">
> solutions).<br class="">
<br class="">
And I consider many of the “facts” you gave to conflate other element than hosting the repository *alone*, which makes it hard to me to see them as relevant as-is.<br class="">
<br class="">
><br class="">
> I also made you aware that the human cost is not *just* Tanya and<br class="">
> Anton, but also me and everyone else that maintains buildbots,<br class="">
> external mirrors, etc. and it *is* larger than the hardware costs. You<br class="">
> just don't see it because we're all volunteers.<br class="">
><br class="">
> Branding them as "hand-wavy I believe" is *not* appropriate.<br class="">
<br class="">
I apologize if I hurt your feeling, but the reality is that I feel you’re conflating multiple things together that are not directly related to “moving the repository only”, and that does not help to be convincing. My use of “hand-wavy”, if that’s what bothered you, means really that (I’m not attaching any other value judgement to this expression as a non-native speaker, maybe it is not the right choice of word from a non-native speaker).<br class="">
<br class="">
—<br class="">
Mehdi</blockquote></div></div>
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