<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">I am thankful for all the moderation work on the mailing lists and I think we all agreed that cross posting was a bad idea in this instance.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In each case getting a consistent coding style accepted, designing good APIs and using the best version control tool available all affect me as a developer so it is worth discussing. I can deal with style inconsistencies, or bad APIs it's often just am annoyance but not a deal breaker. It just slightly affects my productivity. The same is true for version control strategies. There is no reason to dismiss it as "just infrastructure". I hope we can at least agree to disagree on what is relevant for llvm-dev to keep this thread in control.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Matthias</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 5, 2016, at 4:50 PM, C Bergström <<a href="mailto:cbergstrom@pathscale.com" class="">cbergstrom@pathscale.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 7:31 AM, Matthias Braun<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:mbraun@apple.com" target="_blank" class="">mbraun@apple.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 5, 2016, at 4:23 PM, C Bergström via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 6, 2016 at 6:05 AM, Martin J. O'Riordan via llvm-dev<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" target="_blank" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">For ISO C++ we long ago created an 'all' list for topics that were organisational and not technically specific to an aspect of the Standard such as Library, or Core, or Extensions, etc.. For the most part I think that since the early 1990s when these lists started, the 'all' reflector/distribution-list has worked really well. I still get all the ISO C++ mailings, and the signal to noise ratio is pretty good in this regard.<br class=""><br class="">For topics such as GIT versus SVN hosting, or code of conduct, and such like (even social events!); the use of a separate list is well justified and means that we can automatically filter and manage our emails in a more useful way.<br class=""><br class="">Hal's 'community' suggestion is essentially the same thing as the ISO C++ 'all' list, and it has worked really well over the years and I'd definitely favour that approach.<br class=""></blockquote><div class=""><br class="">+11111<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'm tired of all the stupid/bikeshed OT non-developer discussions that happen on what imnsho should be a *development ONLY* list.<br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div><div class="">I don't have a good suggestion to avoid the bikeshed discussion, but it is not off topic: git/svn is used by every active llvm developer on a day to day basis!</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is this reply troll bait? How can a discussion to help clean things up spawn yet a discussion on what should be cleaned up... ummm.. seriously?<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">git vs svn - Put all //your//(community) religious feelings aside, it's more of an infrastructure issue than anything. Any half intelligent developer will make the migration (some begrudgingly) and after some time forget whatever was the old way.<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Things for a developer list:<br class=""></div><div class="">Code style - which can spawn lots of bikeshed (llvm seems to have something that works already)<br class=""></div><div class="">API design - ...<br class=""></div><div class="">RFC on refactoring or some bigger change<br class=""></div><div class="">New developer questions - Hand holding for the first few stupid questions.. it just happens<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why people feel so strongly about blue vs green or 9 vs 10 or whatever other nit picky little thing is beyond me.<br class="">----------------------------<br class=""></div><div class="">Speaking as one of the openmp-dev moderators, at the very least STOP cross posting to that list. In fact, if I see another post with 50 cc's that gets tagged or something else not strictly OMP-dev or user related == rejected. If the person keeps doing it I'll ban them. Until this point I've let other moderators handle those types of things, but if someone *doesn't* agree with that sort of strict policy, tell me now and remove me as a moderator.<br class=""></div><div class="">----------------------------<br class=""></div><div class="">In general the noise on these lists is *so bad* that I typically discourage any developer of ours (PathScale) from subscribing or replying to *any* thread. (I must stay active for those rare gems of content)<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">/* I admit I'm guilty of some noise as well, but it's mostly meant to be funny - Along the lines of "when in Rome" - if however the list was always on topic and near zero noise, I'd personally have never piled on */<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">@chandler - in your CoC is there a way to define what's -dev related and what should go to #hottub/-alt?<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I bet this thread will get 50 posts before it doesn't conclude with consensus... sooo..<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">return;</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>