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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05/05/2016 04:14 AM, Charles Davis
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAPk0b1owBWM9xvpOxDouUBrLtQWsqJDdc6XzE-HTyWD44LAXFw@mail.gmail.com"
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In the
interests of individual liberty and individual justice, I feel
I must speak now.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The last
sentence of the third paragraph bothers me:</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">In
addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may
affect<br>
a person's ability to participate within them.</blockquote>
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<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This
essentially gives the committee <i>carte blanche</i> to
police our thoughts no matter where we are or what we're
doing. I don't like the idea of having my thoughts policed.
There are people out there who <i>will</i> abuse this for
their own ends! I can't let those people do that.</div>
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</blockquote>
I disagree strongly with your interpretation of this clause. I also
find your wording inflammatory and utterly unhelpful to the
discussion at hand. <br>
<br>
The intent of this wording is to ensure that harassment done off the
mailing lists can still be considered a violation of the CoC. For
instance, send of private harassing email, harassing tweets from a
non-work account, etc...<br>
<br>
Do you have *specific and targeted* wording changes that you feel
would resolve your concerns while still meeting the stated purpose?<br>
<br>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm afraid if
this sentence goes in, I go out--and fork the LLVM family.
Yes, I feel <i><b>that</b></i> strongly about freedom of
thought.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In the sample
list of unacceptable behaviors, I'd consider adding the
following:</div>
<div class="gmail_default">
<ul>
<li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Demanding
special treatment for being a particular race, sex,
sexual orientation, gender identity, etc. <b>Nobody</b> gets
this privilege.</font></li>
<li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Kafkatrapping
(e.g. denying X proves you are part of problem X)</font></li>
<li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">False
accusations</font></li>
<li><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Dog-piling
(inviting a bunch of people, many outside the
community, to join the conversation and attack the
target)</font></li>
</ul>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I view all of these as
being already covered by the current proposal under the "</font>Be
respectful" and "Be careful in the words that you choose and be kind
to others" sections. <br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'd also
consider, in the "Personal Attacks" item, that the emphasis
on racist and sexist terms be removed. Yes, they're bad. The
individual is not the mass, after all. Perhaps in addition
to the "Personal Attacks" item we should also have an item
for treating people as parts of groups instead of as
individuals. There's no need to deny their lived experience
by jamming them under some worthless label.</div>
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</blockquote>
Strongly disagreed. History has shown that sexist and racists
actions are unfortunately common and that explicitly calling out
said behavior as unacceptable does change peoples actual behavior.
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<div class="gmail_extra">Finally, I fear that the reporting
process will be abused by less savory people to destroy their
enemies. For this reason, I suggest that there also be
consequences for the <i>accuser</i> if:
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<ul>
<li>The accused is punished, and</li>
<li>The accused is later found to have been innocent.</li>
</ul>
In this case, the accuser would also suffer the punishment.
(Of course, this can be abused, too. We'll have to strike
the right balance between the rights of the accuser and the
rights of the accused. This is hard to get right.)<br>
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I believe this already covered by the reporting policy. In
particular, you'll note that there is no assumption in the document
about who actually violated the CoC. It absolutely could be the
person who initiated the report. Someone trying to abuse the system
in this was would absolutely be violating the CoC as stated. <br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Just my two
cents. I actually don't expect you to act on any of these.
In fact, I expect you all to write me off from this point
forward, just for that last proposal. ;) But if you act on
only one, please make it the first one. I'm willing to
compromise on the others, but no controls on my speech
outside of LLVM's spaces is non-negotiable.</div>
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If you are not willing to avoid personal attacks and keep your
behavior professional, I, personally, will not be sorry to see you
leave. A highly relevant quote: "Your right to swing your arms ends
just where the other man’s nose begins."<br>
<br>
Philip<br>
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