<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Renato Golin via llvm-dev <<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">On 13 October 2015 at 18:59, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev<br class=""><<a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">We have *not* appointed any such committee at this point.<br class="">(...)<br class="">The appeal is to the board of the Foundation. I don't expect the board to<br class="">*be* the committee here, quite the opposite.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">This doesn't solve the problem. If the foundation appoints the<br class="">committee, appeals to the foundation are still open for abuse.<br class=""><br class="">Only democratic and transparent processes can work in this fashion,<br class="">and I don't see the foundation as being either.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">I don't think that their job will be to impose moral authority, I think the<br class="">code of conduct is the basis they would be required to cite for any<br class="">decision. Their role should be much more focused on understanding what has<br class="">happened, and ensuring it is responded to. I also think that is called out<br class="">in the document.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">So why the need to list the punishments and make sure that only<br class="">capital punishments can actually be appealed?<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">I'm surprised and saddened to hear you say this. I also don't particularly<br class="">agree. I have interacted with almost every member of the foundation board as<br class="">a regular course of interacting with the community. The foundation is<br class="">completely handling the planning and running of the developer's meeting.<br class="">Certainly, we're still in the infancy of figuring this stuff out, but I<br class="">don't see a problematic lack of engagement.<br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Apart from the great work Tanya is doing with the LLVM meetings, I<br class="">don't absolutely anything coming from the foundation. Can you<br class="">elaborate?<br class=""><br class="">All in all, she was already doing great work before, so I take this<br class="">more as her personal merit than anything else.<br class=""><br class="">Since we're delving into this topic...<br class=""><br class="">I expected the foundation to own and improve the validation<br class="">infrastructure, and the web presence. So far I only saw Apple building<br class="">the great GreenBot, but when I wanted to help, it seemed this would be<br class="">something between me and on Apple employee.<br class=""><br class="">I also saw the migration to a new server (thanks again Tanya), but<br class="">that's very far from providing a stable infrastructure. If Tanya is<br class="">the only one doing things, of course she won't be able to do what we<br class="">*need* in any reasonable time.<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>You are totally right. I am only one person. I do have help with certain aspects of the machine. What I’m aiming for is group of administrators to handle <a href="http://llvm.org" class="">llvm.org</a>. But I need to move all the infrastructure over to AWS (I just moved the lists) and also separate out pieces of it (like perf) to another machine. I know that you have give me lots of advice in this area, and I’m sorry it hasn't been executed yet. There is a plan drafted (with input from more than just the board), but it has not been presented to the community yet.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I expected the foundation sponsors to put in hardware and money to buy<br class="">servers, Amazon cloud instances, co-host testing devices with<br class="">universities in a way to foster inclusion and promote the project,<br class="">etc. Things that are obvious to me, but it seems got lost in the<br class="">foundation…</div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>I’m sorry this is the perception. This is for sure the long term plan, but many things have had to fall into place before . A lot of our efforts over the last year have been in actually establishing the Foundation as a whole. So this includes all the necessary legal, accounting, and other pieces in place. These are all the things that are not at all interesting or really useful for the community, but they will be in the long term.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I’d really like a better way to capture all of these great ideas. I’m taking notes, but maybe we need another place (other than llvm-dev) that ideas can be shared. </div><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="">I also don't see any transparency, not representation. We got a memo<br class="">that it came into existence, than nothing else. I can't find any<br class="">document about the foundation except that blog post. As a non-profit,<br class="">I'd expect to be public memos, checks and balances, monthly reports,<br class="">etc.<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div>This is entirely my fault (not the board as a whole) and its something I have been trying to rectify. You are exactly right. Everything we are doing should be 100% transparent. I have all of the board meeting minutes, our bylaws, everything that needs to go onto the website. Its something that I just didn’t make a high enough priority and I’m sorry about that. I will try to move this to the top of the list.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>If anyone wants copies of anything before then, I am more than happy to send an email to you. Please do not hesitate to ask me.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>-Tanya</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">I don't want to have those documents on my disk, I want them public,<br class="">indexed by search engines, as soon as they're published.<br class=""><br class="">I can't see how the foundation represents my work in LLVM if they<br class="">essentially don't exist publicly, especially because there's no way I<br class="">can influence. Representation is given, not taken.<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">cheers,<br class="">--renato<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">LLVM Developers mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org" class="">llvm-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><br class="">http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev<br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>