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    Really: STOP IT re: whining about windows threading vs. pthreads on
    windows.<br>
    <br>
    A compiler is not, by design, a multi-threaded application.<br>
    Windows is, NOT, by design, amenable to posix threading.  GET OVER
    IT.<br>
    If you want to build a high performance  application, you are NOT
    using Windows.<br>
        The reality is that Windows has been focused on programming for
    the masses, not on performance.<br>
    There is nothing wrong with that, but trying to use LLVM as a
    'forcing function' to increase Windows performance is utterly silly.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/26/2014 4:01 PM, Yaron Keren
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CANa4zJrPSR+2GBChg-s5An6nB+n-4XN4X-rKJn0Row1P42Ddtg@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="rtl">
        <div dir="ltr">Hi Vadim,</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">Yes, exactly, what is the point of having two
          versions -pthreads and -win32threads when you can make
          -pthreads behave like -win32threads by disabling the use of
          pthreads etc?</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
        <div dir="ltr">Yaron</div>
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra">
        <div dir="ltr"><br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-26 22:47 GMT+03:00 Vadim
            Chugunov <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com" target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;border-right:1px #ccc
              solid;padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex">
              <div>
                <div>When LLVM's configure finds a usable
                  <pthread.h>, it prefers to use that rather than
                  the home-grown stuff.   However if LLVM is configured
                  with --disable-pthreads, both mingw flavors produce
                  the same results.<br>
                  <br>
                </div>
                BTW, I've tried to quantify the slowdown: a quick test
                indicates that LLVM build that uses pthreads is about
                10% slower than the one which doesn't.  This is less
                that I remember seeing last year (something got
                optimized?), but still...<span class="HOEnZb"><font
                    color="#888888"><br>
                    <br>
                  </font></span></div>
              <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Vadim</font></span>
              <div>
                <div class="h5"><br>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                        <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at
                          3:29 AM, Yaron Keren <span dir="ltr"><<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:yaron.keren@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank">yaron.keren@gmail.com</a>></span>
                          wrote:<br>
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                            <div dir="rtl">
                              <div dir="ltr">Yes, of course.</div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">I refer to the <span
                                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px"> significant
                                  slowdown of Rust compiler when
                                  compiled with -pthreads vs
                                  -win32threads flavor.</span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span
                                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">If
                                  Rust can be compiled without
                                  <mutex> and <thread> on
                                  win32threads, why should it slow down
                                  on pthreads? </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span
                                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">Isn't
                                  the only difference betwen the
                                  win32threads and pthreads is the
                                  addition of pthreads, <mutex>
                                  and <thread>?</span><span><font
                                    color="#888888"><br>
                                  </font></span></div>
                              <span><font color="#888888">
                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                      style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">Yaron</span></div>
                                  <div dir="ltr"><span
                                      style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px"><br>
                                    </span></div>
                                </font></span></div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div class="gmail_extra">
                                  <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-26
                                      11:39 GMT+03:00 Vadim Chugunov <span
                                        dir="ltr"><<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com"
                                          target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0px
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                                        <div>Hi Yaron,<br>
                                        </div>
                                        Not sure I understand your
                                        question.  Wasn't <mutex>
                                        one of the more important C++11
                                        features that LLVM would like to
                                        use?<br>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                          <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                            Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:24
                                            AM, Yaron Keren <span
                                              dir="ltr"><<a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                href="mailto:yaron.keren@gmail.com"
                                                target="_blank">yaron.keren@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                            wrote:<br>
                                            <blockquote
                                              class="gmail_quote"
                                              style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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                                              <div dir="rtl">
                                                <div dir="ltr">Vadim, </div>
                                                <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="ltr">Thanks
                                                  for the feedback on
                                                  the -win32. A
                                                  dependency on a small
                                                  DLL with BSD license
                                                  does not sound too
                                                  bad, but performance
                                                  regression is
                                                  obviously a serious
                                                  problem.<br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                </div>
                                                <div dir="ltr">However,
                                                  by disabling
                                                  <mutex> use with
                                                  -pthreads rust
                                                  performance should be
                                                  same as -win32
                                                  threads?</div>
                                                <div dir="ltr">Saying it
                                                  another way, does the
                                                  -win32 version have
                                                  any feature that
                                                  -pthreads vesion do
                                                  not have?</div>
                                                <span><font
                                                    color="#888888">
                                                    <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <div dir="ltr">Yaron</div>
                                                    <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                                    </div>
                                                  </font></span></div>
                                              <div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div
                                                    class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                    <div
                                                      class="gmail_quote">
                                                      <div dir="ltr">2014-09-25
                                                        9:52 GMT+03:00
                                                        Vadim Chugunov <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com" target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:</div>
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        class="gmail_quote"
                                                        style="margin:0px
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                                                        <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>Hi,<br>
                                                          I think I can
                                                          at least
                                                          answer why the
                                                          Rust project
                                                          prefers to use
mingw-w64-win32threads:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          1. It does not
                                                          inject
                                                          dependency on
                                                          libwinpthread.dll,
                                                          which is nice.<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          2. Those who
                                                          tried building
                                                          LLVM with
                                                          mingw-w64-pthreads,
                                                          had reported
                                                          significant
                                                          slowdown of
                                                          the resulting
                                                          Rust compiler
                                                          (as compared
                                                          to one linked
                                                          to LLVM
                                                          compiled with
                                                          the
                                                          win32threads
                                                          flavor).  
                                                          Profiling
                                                          seemed to
                                                          point towards
                                                          libpthreads'
                                                          implementation
                                                          of mutex.  I
                                                          had checked
                                                          the source,
                                                          and indeed, it
                                                          looked not
                                                          very efficient
                                                          (<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sourceforge.net/p/mingw-w64/bugs/344" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/p/mingw-w64/bugs/344</a>). 
                                                          It would be
                                                          nice to get a
                                                          second
                                                          opinion,
                                                          though, maybe
                                                          I missed
                                                          something.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Vadim<br>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On Wed,
                                                          Sep 24, 2014
                                                          at 10:55 AM,
                                                          Chandler
                                                          Carruth <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chandlerc@google.com"
                                                          target="_blank">chandlerc@google.com</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0px
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                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">On
                                                          Wed, Sep 24,
                                                          2014 at 10:37
                                                          AM, Óscar
                                                          Fuentes <span
                                                          dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ofv@wanadoo.es" target="_blank">ofv@wanadoo.es</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0px
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                                                          <div
                                                          style="overflow:hidden">The
                                                          best thing for
                                                          understanding
                                                          their reasons
                                                          is to ask them
                                                          to speak<br>
                                                          up.</div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>I asked
                                                          them directly,
                                                          and this
                                                          thread is a
                                                          chance for
                                                          them to speak
                                                          up again. I
                                                          *think* I've
                                                          addressed the
                                                          concerns of
                                                          those I've
                                                          spoken to
                                                          directly, but
                                                          there may be
                                                          other folks or
                                                          other concerns
                                                          or I may have
                                                          messed it up.
                                                          =]</div>
                                                          <div> </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote"
                                                          style="margin:0px
                                                          0px 0px
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                                                          <div
                                                          style="overflow:hidden">
                                                          My experience
                                                          on the
                                                          MinGW/MinGW-w64
                                                          communities is
                                                          that those who<br>
                                                          choose MinGW
                                                          is because of
                                                          ignorance
                                                          about
                                                          MinGW-w64 and
                                                          because there<br>
                                                          are lots of
                                                          documents on
                                                          the 'net that
                                                          references
                                                          MinGW. MinGW
                                                          is, to<br>
                                                          all practical
                                                          effects, a
                                                          zombie project
                                                          and there is
                                                          no reason to
                                                          prefer<br>
                                                          it over
                                                          MinGW-w64
                                                          nowadays.</div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          :: shrug ::</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra">I'm
                                                          not such a
                                                          user, and so I
                                                          don't want to
                                                          speculate as
                                                          to what
                                                          motivates
                                                          them.</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <span>_______________________________________________<br>
                                                          LLVM
                                                          Developers
                                                          mailing list<br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu" target="_blank">LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a> 
                                                                 <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu" target="_blank">http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu</a><br>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev" target="_blank">http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev</a><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span></blockquote>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                                        LLVM Developers
                                                        mailing list<br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu" target="_blank">LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a> 
                                                               <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu" target="_blank">http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu</a><br>
                                                        <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev" target="_blank">http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev</a><br>
                                                        <br>
                                                      </blockquote>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </div>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                          </div>
                                          <br>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                        <br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
LLVM Developers mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu">LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a>         <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu">http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev">http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev</a>
</pre>
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