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Really: STOP IT re: whining about windows threading vs. pthreads on
windows.<br>
<br>
A compiler is not, by design, a multi-threaded application.<br>
Windows is, NOT, by design, amenable to posix threading. GET OVER
IT.<br>
If you want to build a high performance application, you are NOT
using Windows.<br>
The reality is that Windows has been focused on programming for
the masses, not on performance.<br>
There is nothing wrong with that, but trying to use LLVM as a
'forcing function' to increase Windows performance is utterly silly.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/26/2014 4:01 PM, Yaron Keren
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CANa4zJrPSR+2GBChg-s5An6nB+n-4XN4X-rKJn0Row1P42Ddtg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="rtl">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Vadim,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, exactly, what is the point of having two
versions -pthreads and -win32threads when you can make
-pthreads behave like -win32threads by disabling the use of
pthreads etc?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Yaron</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-26 22:47 GMT+03:00 Vadim
Chugunov <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com" target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;border-right:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex">
<div>
<div>When LLVM's configure finds a usable
<pthread.h>, it prefers to use that rather than
the home-grown stuff. However if LLVM is configured
with --disable-pthreads, both mingw flavors produce
the same results.<br>
<br>
</div>
BTW, I've tried to quantify the slowdown: a quick test
indicates that LLVM build that uses pthreads is about
10% slower than the one which doesn't. This is less
that I remember seeing last year (something got
optimized?), but still...<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
</font></span></div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Vadim</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at
3:29 AM, Yaron Keren <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yaron.keren@gmail.com"
target="_blank">yaron.keren@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="rtl">
<div dir="ltr">Yes, of course.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I refer to the <span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px"> significant
slowdown of Rust compiler when
compiled with -pthreads vs
-win32threads flavor.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">If
Rust can be compiled without
<mutex> and <thread> on
win32threads, why should it slow down
on pthreads? </span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">Isn't
the only difference betwen the
win32threads and pthreads is the
addition of pthreads, <mutex>
and <thread>?</span><span><font
color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px">Yaron</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.7273px"><br>
</span></div>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-09-26
11:39 GMT+03:00 Vadim Chugunov <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com"
target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);border-right:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;padding-right:1ex">
<div>Hi Yaron,<br>
</div>
Not sure I understand your
question. Wasn't <mutex>
one of the more important C++11
features that LLVM would like to
use?<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 1:24
AM, Yaron Keren <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yaron.keren@gmail.com"
target="_blank">yaron.keren@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="rtl">
<div dir="ltr">Vadim, </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Thanks
for the feedback on
the -win32. A
dependency on a small
DLL with BSD license
does not sound too
bad, but performance
regression is
obviously a serious
problem.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">However,
by disabling
<mutex> use with
-pthreads rust
performance should be
same as -win32
threads?</div>
<div dir="ltr">Saying it
another way, does the
-win32 version have
any feature that
-pthreads vesion do
not have?</div>
<span><font
color="#888888">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Yaron</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</font></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">2014-09-25
9:52 GMT+03:00
Vadim Chugunov <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:vadimcn@gmail.com" target="_blank">vadimcn@gmail.com</a>></span>:</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br>
I think I can
at least
answer why the
Rust project
prefers to use
mingw-w64-win32threads:<br>
</div>
1. It does not
inject
dependency on
libwinpthread.dll,
which is nice.<br>
</div>
2. Those who
tried building
LLVM with
mingw-w64-pthreads,
had reported
significant
slowdown of
the resulting
Rust compiler
(as compared
to one linked
to LLVM
compiled with
the
win32threads
flavor).
Profiling
seemed to
point towards
libpthreads'
implementation
of mutex. I
had checked
the source,
and indeed, it
looked not
very efficient
(<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://sourceforge.net/p/mingw-w64/bugs/344" target="_blank">http://sourceforge.net/p/mingw-w64/bugs/344</a>).
It would be
nice to get a
second
opinion,
though, maybe
I missed
something.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Vadim<br>
</font></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Wed,
Sep 24, 2014
at 10:55 AM,
Chandler
Carruth <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chandlerc@google.com"
target="_blank">chandlerc@google.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Sep 24,
2014 at 10:37
AM, Óscar
Fuentes <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ofv@wanadoo.es" target="_blank">ofv@wanadoo.es</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="overflow:hidden">The
best thing for
understanding
their reasons
is to ask them
to speak<br>
up.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I asked
them directly,
and this
thread is a
chance for
them to speak
up again. I
*think* I've
addressed the
concerns of
those I've
spoken to
directly, but
there may be
other folks or
other concerns
or I may have
messed it up.
=]</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="overflow:hidden">
My experience
on the
MinGW/MinGW-w64
communities is
that those who<br>
choose MinGW
is because of
ignorance
about
MinGW-w64 and
because there<br>
are lots of
documents on
the 'net that
references
MinGW. MinGW
is, to<br>
all practical
effects, a
zombie project
and there is
no reason to
prefer<br>
it over
MinGW-w64
nowadays.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
:: shrug ::</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">I'm
not such a
user, and so I
don't want to
speculate as
to what
motivates
them.</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
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