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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree with the remarks made by Tanya.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Our team plans to actively help fix release blocker bugs for ARM targets.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, clear release criteria need to be defined for that, so that it’s clear which bugs are release blockers. Additionally, continuous testing needs to be set up to automatically determine whether there are any release blocker bugs or not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Maybe we could have a BoF session during the conference on the 18<sup>th</sup> of November to come up with a basic set of release criteria for ARM targets?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kristof<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> llvmdev-bounces@cs.uiuc.edu [mailto:llvmdev-bounces@cs.uiuc.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tanya Lattner<br><b>Sent:</b> 14 October 2011 22:32<br><b>To:</b> rajav@codeaurora.org<br><b>Cc:</b> James Molloy; 'Joe Abbey'; llvmdev@cs.uiuc.edu<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [LLVMdev] LLC ARM Backend maintainer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Raja Venkateswaran wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think we need a group of maintainers rather than a single maintainer given the spectrum of ARM targets/ISAs/platforms required to support and the amount of people/system resources required. I & my team plan to actively participate in the bug-fixing process during the release cycle. If we can divide the bugs among the maintainers and establish a requirement that all open ARM bugs must be fixed/addressed (at least analyzed if cannot be fixed) by release time, it will go a long way in ensuring high quality releases for ARM</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Its very unrealistic to require that all ARM bugs be fixed for a release. There is no way that this would feasible work and get the release out in a timely manner. You need to have a very concrete list of requirements to consider the release to be qualified for ARM. I suggest looking at we we currently do:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://llvm.org/docs/HowToReleaseLLVM.html#criteria">http://llvm.org/docs/HowToReleaseLLVM.html#criteria</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bill is going to update this to reflect us dropping llvm-gcc, but thats the general idea. When determining the release criteria, I would advise starting off small. You don't need to come up with the perfect solution up front. Pick a few tests, bootstrap, and then which processors are to be qualified. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Once the criteria is established, then continuous testing needs to occur via our buildbot infrastructure. Given our short release cycle, we can't not test something for 6 months and then suddenly decide to test it during the release cycle. Too many surprise bugs will show up and may take a very long time to fix. Its much better to continuously test and have a handful of issues come release time.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Volunteers are needed to be the qualifier for some arch/platform for releases. If someone is interested in filling these roles, please talk to Bill as he is the current release manager.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>And as always, we need volunteers to fix release blocker bugs during the release cycle. This has sometimes been big problem during a release cycle and hopefully more will start to get more volunteers. This is why we need continuous testing of release criteria because we just don't have enough volunteers to fix everything at the last minute.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Lastly, anyone can contribute to the ARM backend, so I don't think there is anything really stopping people at the moment for helping "maintain" the ARM backend. Evan is the code owner who approves all changes of course.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tanya<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--Raja</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-width:initial;border-color:initial'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Joe Abbey [mailto:jabbey@arxan.com]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:01 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Renato Golin<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Anton Korobeynikov;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:rajav@codeaurora.org">rajav@codeaurora.org</a>; James Molloy;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:llvmdev@cs.uiuc.edu">llvmdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [LLVMdev] LLC ARM Backend maintainer</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Admittedly we're very interested in becoming ARM backend maintainers as our product heavily relies on LLVM.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>However, we don't have testing resources to test both our product and LLVM on a host of target boards. We have some chumbys, beagleboards, iPhones, iPod Touches, tables, Android Phones, etc. And most of those are already booked solid with our own regression tests (most of which are based on llvm-test-suite)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Could ARM enable us with testing hardware/resources?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Joe Abbey</span></span><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><span class=apple-style-span>Software Architect</span><br><span class=apple-style-span>Arxan Technologies, Inc.</span><br><span class=apple-style-span>1305 Cumberland Ave, Ste 215</span><br><span class=apple-style-span>West Lafayette, IN 47906</span><br><span class=apple-style-span>W: 765-889-4756 x2</span><br><span class=apple-style-span>C: 765-464-9893</span><br><span class=apple-style-span><a href="mailto:jabbey@arxan.com">jabbey@arxan.com</a></span><br><span class=apple-style-span><a href="http://www.arxan.com">www.arxan.com</a></span><br><br><br><br></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On Oct 13, 2011, at 12:48 PM, Renato Golin wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On 11 October 2011 18:22, Anton Korobeynikov <<a href="mailto:anton@korobeynikov.info">anton@korobeynikov.info</a>> wrote:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>1. We should define which ARM-related features (in general, e.g.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>platforms, cores, modes, etc.) we consider "release important"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>2. We should define the conditions how the features in 1. should be tested<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>3. Someone should perform such testing for each release, provide help<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>with reproduction of the problems (consider e.g. PR11107, w/o Bill's<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>help it would be extremely hard to reproduce the problem, since it<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>manifests only on arm/darwin).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br>4. We should be able to guarantee that release-blocking bugs on ARM<br>targets will be fixed (if technically possible) before the actual<br>release.<br><br>There is no point in define ARM as a release-blocking target if there<br>is no commitment in actually fixing release bugs. What keeps ARM on<br>the bench is just the lack of general commitment. Somebody has to own<br>it, for real.<br><br>cheers,<br>--renato<br>_______________________________________________<br>LLVM Developers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu">LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span> <a href="http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu">http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu</a><br><a href="http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev">http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>_______________________________________________<br>LLVM Developers mailing list<br><a href="mailto:LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu">LLVMdev@cs.uiuc.edu</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span> <a href="http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu">http://llvm.cs.uiuc.edu</a><br><a href="http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev">http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/llvmdev</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>