[llvm-dev] LLVM Incubator + new projects draft

Philip Reames via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Mon Jul 6 10:32:09 PDT 2020


On 7/1/20 2:12 PM, Chris Lattner wrote:
>
>
>> On Jul 1, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Philip Reames <listmail at philipreames.com 
>> <mailto:listmail at philipreames.com>> wrote:
>>
>> This looks to be a reasonable starting point.
>>
>> A couple of nit picks, none are blockers.
>>
>>  1. I'd hold off on handing out the sub-domain for the moment.  This
>>     feels more official than we probably want for a random
>>     incubator.  I reserve the right to change my mind here, but maybe
>>     we should delay this part until we see what actual incubators
>>     look like?  As an alternative, maybe have a common
>>     incubator.llvm.org <http://incubator.llvm.org> page which links
>>     to the docs defining the process and lists all active incubators
>>     with links to docs in their own repo?
>>
> Sounds great, I’m happy to take this out - this avoids “promising” it, 
> but we can still discuss it on a case-by-case basis.  I changed this 
> to "Other infrastructure integration can be discussed on a 
> case-by-case basis.”, because there are bug tracker and other things 
> as well.
>>
>>  2. The must/should terminology should probably be factored out once
>>     and referenced.  As written, it takes a little effort to be sure
>>     the definitions are the same between the two uses.
>>
> I’m not sure what you mean here.  Do you have a recommended approach?
Land yours, and if I still care, I'll send a patch.  :)
>>
>>  3. I'm not sure I agree with the no-code standard.  I agree with
>>     minimal code, but I think an incubator should be established
>>     enough to be discussed concretely (e.g. "what is" vs "ideals").
>>
> I hear what you’re saying, but I think we can handle this as part of 
> the approval process.  We can bounce of things that qualitatively 
> don’t feel credible and give guidance there, but can still be 
> receptive if something seems like a promising direction.
>>
>>  4. As I mentioned before, I'd advocate for the notion of a sponsor
>>     (an existing LLVM contributor) for each incubator.  I'd have that
>>     a must on the incubator list.
>>
> Yes, this is a good idea.  The problem here is “how do we decide who 
> qualifies as a sponsor?”.  I don’t know a good way to say that - 
> someone with N years of LLVM experience, M patches, …?  How does this 
> get explained?

You said elsewhere that we could let this evolve with experience.  I 
would take that sentiment, and apply it here.  I'm really more concerned 
about the expectations of the role (i.e. some human familiar with LLVM 
norms willing to invest non-trivial time), than I am the details of who 
is eligible.

Since I don't want this to be blocking item, why don't we land what you 
have and I can draft something as a patch?  It seems like there's some 
general agreement about a potential issue and we just need to find a way 
to address it.

>
> -Chris
>
>> Philip
>>
>> On 6/30/20 8:29 PM, Mehdi AMINI via llvm-dev wrote:
>>> Looks like a good proposal to me as-is! Thanks for putting this 
>>> together to both of you :)
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Mehdi
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:49 PM Chris Lattner via llvm-dev 
>>> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hah, whoops, sorry about that.  This is the correct link:
>>>     https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ss4jGHywL0Y2KW_l4LqTo5CgJxx3i0_4-FkbXiPQMus/edit
>>>
>>>     -Chris
>>>
>>>>     On Jun 30, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Thomas Lively <tlively at google.com
>>>>     <mailto:tlively at google.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi Chris,
>>>>
>>>>     I'm also seeing an access denied error on the first link you
>>>>     shared, and although I can access the second document, it
>>>>     doesn't look like the document you meant to share. It looks
>>>>     like a one pager on ML in Swift.
>>>>
>>>>     Thomas
>>>>
>>>>     On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:05 PM Chris Lattner via llvm-dev
>>>>     <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>         On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:52 AM, Roman Lebedev
>>>>>         <lebedev.ri at gmail.com <mailto:lebedev.ri at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>         On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:44 PM Chris Lattner via llvm-dev
>>>>>         <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>>
>>>>>         wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         The idea of adding an “incubation” stage to projects in
>>>>>>         the LLVM world seems to be positively received.  I also
>>>>>>         noticed that we don’t really document the new project
>>>>>>         policy in general in the LLVM Developer Policy.  To help
>>>>>>         with both of these Stella and I worked together to draft
>>>>>>         up a new section for the LLVM developer policy
>>>>>>         (incorporating the existing “New Targets” section).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>         Ahead of proposing a Phabricator patch, we put it into
>>>>>>         this google doc, I’d love to get feedback on it from
>>>>>>         anyone who is interested in this:
>>>>>>         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ss4jGHywL0Y2KW_l4LqTo5CgJxx3i0_4-FkbXiPQMus/edit
>>>>>         Currently it doesn't open, "You need access", sanity
>>>>>         check: is viewing
>>>>>         allowed for everybody?
>>>>
>>>>         It says that “anyone on the internet is allowed to
>>>>         comment”, maybe this link will work better?:
>>>>         https://docs.google.com/document/d/1lC7cOJ2Iiqdx62o81J5YP7RzFHi8k2Rkt0zla-Kh6no/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>
>>>>         In any case, if google docs isn’t cooperating, then you can
>>>>         check it out when it gets to Phabricator.
>>>>
>>>>         -Chris
>>>>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         LLVM Developers mailing list
>>>>         llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
>>>>         https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>>>>
>>>
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>
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