[llvm-dev] Discourse category for the AMDGPU target

Wed Aug 5 10:36:08 PDT 2020

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:57 AM Nicolai Hähnle <nhaehnle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> it's still not clear to me whether you actually have an alternative?

I think as the discussions pertain to code in the LLVM project proper,
the place to discuss them would be llvm-dev. Though I appreciate the
difficulties in doing so, to be sure (its busy, intimidating (any
particular ideas how it comes off as intimidating? I'd like to help
change that in any way I can - for general improvement whether or not
it contains AMDGPU discussions or not)).

I'm mostly trying to relay the previous discussions/concerns that
other folks expressed - so the conversation can start from there/have
that context. I don't know that I feel especially strongly personally
(not as much as other folks on that previous thread do, at least).

- Dave

> Cheers,
> Nicolai
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:46 PM David Blaikie <dblaikie at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 2:22 PM Nicolai Hähnle <nhaehnle at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 7:00 PM David Blaikie <dblaikie at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I don't have much personal interest here - but my understanding was
> > > > that there was/is a fair bit of pushback to fragmenting the
> > > > communications channels to discord before there's a more general
> > > > buy-in to switch over across the project? (perhaps I'm misremembering
> > > > the previous threads about discourse, though - and we have already
> > > > pretty significantly fragmented on the chat-like medium between IRC
> > > > and Discord)
> > >
> > > Discourse is really more of an alternative to mailing lists, not to chat.
> >
> > Right - I mentioned that that by analogy here.
> >
> > In any case, the main thread that discussed this previously is here:
> > http://lists.llvm.org/pipermail/llvm-dev/2019-November/136880.html
> > (including links to the live/in-use Discord and Discourse)
> >
> > I'm not sure what discussion went into MLIR using discourse - whether
> > it got in sideways by being the way the project already interacted
> > before it came under the LLVM umbrella. But I have some concerns about
> > the fragmentation there.
> >
> > Perhaps most of the push back is about the existing LLVM lists and
> > doesn't apply as much to new subcommunities, but I have my
> > doubts/concerns about fragmenting the tools used to interact with LLVM
> > communities like this - making it  harder for folks to move between
> > different subcommunities when contributing across the boundaries.
> >
> > > For what it's worth, the alternatives we've looked at were:
> > >
> > > 1. Just use llvm-dev. This avoids the fragmentation you mention, but
> > > it was considered undesirable for several reasons:
> > > 1.1. Most people watching llvm-dev wouldn't be interested, and we
> > > don't want to increase the noise unnecessarily.
> > > 1.2. Some people in the relevant audience expressed that they prefer
> > > not to subscribe to llvm-dev due to its volume, or are worried that
> > > the topics they're interested in would be drowned out in the general
> > > noise.
> > > 1.3. Some people in the relevant audience expressed that posting to
> > > llvm-dev can be scary.
> > >
> > > 2. Create a new mailing list amdgpu-dev at lists.llvm.org. I think the
> > > relevant audience would be mostly fine with that, but there were two
> > > perceived advantages to the Discourse path:
> > > 2.1. If a topic in the amdgpu discussion space come up that turns out
> > > to be interesting to somebody who is not usually following that space,
> > > then the barrier to jumping into that topic is lower on Discourse --
> > > there aren't any issues with posting to a mailing list that one isn't
> > > subscribed to.
> > > 2.2. We believe that maintaining a new mailing list is a higher burden
> > > for the LLVM project (I'm happy to be corrected on that point).
> > >
> > > Are you saying that you think we should use one of those alternatives,
> > > or do you have yet another alternative in mind?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Nicolai
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 9:36 AM Nicolai Hähnle via llvm-dev
> > > > <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > We’ve been having discussions over the last few weeks with
> > > > > stakeholders both inside and outside of AMD about where we could best
> > > > > have a dedicated and open discussion space for topics around the
> > > > > AMDGPU target. The conclusion was that we’d like to try the use of a
> > > > > category in the LLVM Discourse group, which is mostly used for MLIR
> > > > > discussion so far.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started a Discourse topic with more detail, as that seemed
> > > > > rather fitting:
> > > > > https://llvm.discourse.group/t/category-for-the-amdgpu-target/1480
> > > > >
> > > > > However, this obviously affects the broader LLVM community, hence this
> > > > > e-mail on llvm-dev. If people are generally okay with such a move, we
> > > > > would ask the Discourse admins to please create that new category.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Nicolai
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Lerne, wie die Welt wirklich ist,
> > > > > aber vergiss niemals, wie sie sein sollte.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > LLVM Developers mailing list
> > > > > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> > > > > https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lerne, wie die Welt wirklich ist,
> > > aber vergiss niemals, wie sie sein sollte.
>
>
>
> --
> Lerne, wie die Welt wirklich ist,
> aber vergiss niemals, wie sie sein sollte.