[llvm-dev] RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct

Renato Golin via llvm-dev llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
Wed Oct 14 14:10:48 PDT 2015

On 14 October 2015 at 21:57, Philip Reames <listmail at philipreames.com> wrote:
> Chandler, I think your opening here is a bit quick to dismiss Renato's
> position.  Your following text is more reasonable, but you first sentence
> comes across as a bit harsh.

I agree, and felt a bit pushed back, but the rest of the email has
clarified it well.

I agree with Chandler's point, though. Some people are incorrigible,
and no matter how much they add, it's never a good situation to be in.
No excuses.

> I think part of Renato's concern - it definitely is part of mine! - is
> that he might say something, unintentionally offend someone, and not get a
> chance to learn from it.


> That doesn't change the fact that I'm still responsible for
> having given offense or that I didn't do my best to make amends, but the
> chance to learn without it being "game over" is key.

Precisely the kind of situation that happens almost every day in my
life. That's why I'm very open about my limitations, I learnt that it
helps people to give me a chance to understand.

I don't want to use that as an excuse for bad behaviour. Nor I think
people have the obligation to provide me an explanation.

> If someone's safety is in question, "game over" is *absolutely* the right response.


> I think it is reasonable to ask people to undertake the effort, even though
> for some it will be a very significant effort.

I see this more of a personal choice. I know people that chose not to
care, and they went back to their caves. I chose to care, and I suffer
every day, but the joy of being part of a community is greater than
that, so I'm ok. Stressed, but ok.

>>> Chandler wrote:
> For example, this discussion and getting a strong and effective code of
> conduct is a *tremendous* effort for me. It is worth it. I couldn't think of
> a better cause to pour my energy into than making more people feel welcome
> in our open source community.

I can imagine, and I commend you for that. I don't think I said that
yet, but thank you for doing this.

> And I do want you to feel welcome here. I just *also* want you to put forth
> the necessary effort to keep your communication at the high standard we have
> here. And I have seen you do so! I *know* that you are in fact capable of
> communicating effectively *and* in line with the proposed code of conduct.
> So I truly hope you do not feel discouraged.

It may seem silly, but this has just made my day. I was really worried
that our past altercations had marked you in some meaningful way. I'm
happy to know that we're past that.

If you still feel in any way uneasy, *please*, let me know.

I'll add my two propositions to your new review in Phab.


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