[llvm-dev] RFC: Introducing an LLVM Community Code of Conduct

Tue Oct 13 23:29:14 PDT 2015

On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Tanya Lattner via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:

>
> On Oct 13, 2015, at 11:16 AM, Renato Golin via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> On 13 October 2015 at 18:59, Chandler Carruth via llvm-dev
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
> We have *not* appointed any such committee at this point.
> (...)
> The appeal is to the board of the Foundation. I don't expect the board to
> *be* the committee here, quite the opposite.
>
>
> This doesn't solve the problem. If the foundation appoints the
> committee, appeals to the foundation are still open for abuse.
>
> Only democratic and transparent processes can work in this fashion,
> and I don't see the foundation as being either.
>
>
> I don't think that their job will be to impose moral authority, I think the
> code of conduct is the basis they would be required to cite for any
> decision. Their role should be much more focused on understanding what has
> happened, and ensuring it is responded to. I also think that is called out
> in the document.
>
>
> So why the need to list the punishments and make sure that only
> capital punishments can actually be appealed?
>
>
> I'm surprised and saddened to hear you say this. I also don't particularly
> agree. I have interacted with almost every member of the foundation board
> as
> a regular course of interacting with the community. The foundation is
> completely handling the planning and running of the developer's meeting.
> Certainly, we're still in the infancy of figuring this stuff out, but I
> don't see a problematic lack of engagement.
>
>
> Apart from the great work Tanya is doing with the LLVM meetings, I
> don't absolutely anything coming from the foundation. Can you
> elaborate?
>
> All in all, she was already doing great work before, so I take this
> more as her personal merit than anything else.
>
> Since we're delving into this topic...
>
> I expected the foundation to own and improve the validation
> infrastructure, and the web presence. So far I only saw Apple building
> the great GreenBot, but when I wanted to help, it seemed this would be
> something between me and on Apple employee.
>
> I also saw the migration to a new server (thanks again Tanya), but
> that's very far from providing a stable infrastructure. If Tanya is
> the only one doing things, of course she won't be able to do what we
> *need* in any reasonable time.
>
>
> You are totally right. I am only one person. I do have help with certain
> aspects of the machine. What I’m aiming for is group of administrators to
> handle llvm.org. But I need to move all the infrastructure over to AWS (I
> just moved the lists) and also separate out pieces of it (like perf) to
> another machine. I know that you have give me lots of advice in this area,
> and I’m sorry it hasn't been executed yet. There is a plan drafted (with
> input from more than just the board), but it has not been presented to the
> community yet.
>
> I expected the foundation sponsors to put in hardware and money to buy
> servers, Amazon cloud instances, co-host testing devices with
> universities in a way to foster inclusion and promote the project,
> etc. Things that are obvious to me, but it seems got lost in the
> foundation…
>
>
> I’m sorry this is the perception. This is for sure the long term plan, but
> many things have had to fall into place before . A lot of our efforts over
> the last year have been in actually establishing the Foundation as a whole.
> So this includes all the necessary legal, accounting, and other pieces in
> place. These are all the things that are not at all interesting or really
> useful for the community, but they will be in the long term.
>
> I’d really like a better way to capture all of these great ideas. I’m
> taking notes, but maybe we need another place (other than llvm-dev) that
> ideas can be shared.
>
>
> I also don't see any transparency, not representation. We got a memo
> that it came into existence, than nothing else. I can't find any
> document about the foundation except that blog post. As a non-profit,
> I'd expect to be public memos, checks and balances, monthly reports,
> etc.
>
> This is entirely my fault (not the board as a whole) and its something I
> have been trying to rectify. You are exactly right. Everything we are doing
> should be 100% transparent. I have all of the board meeting minutes, our
> bylaws, everything that needs to go onto the website. Its something that I
> just didn’t make a high enough priority and I’m sorry about that. I will
> try to move this to the top of the list.
>
> If anyone wants copies of anything before then, I am more than happy to
> send an email to you. Please do not hesitate to ask me.
>

Could you just throw stuff in the public LLVM SVN repo? Same way we have
[lld] posts or [compiler-rt] posts on llvm-commits we would have
[foundation] mailing list posts or whatever. Would also be nice in that
llvm-commits is a natural avenue to disseminate information to involved
developers.

I'd definitely click into `[foundation] rXXXXXX - LLVM Foundation Oct 13
2015 meeting minutes` or whatever to take a look (that would be quite
convenient for me actually).

-- Sean Silva

>
> -Tanya
>
> I don't want to have those documents on my disk, I want them public,
> indexed by search engines, as soon as they're published.
>
> I can't see how the foundation represents my work in LLVM if they
> essentially don't exist publicly, especially because there's no way I
> can influence. Representation is given, not taken.
>
>
> cheers,
> --renato
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