[PATCH] D13741: Introduce a *draft* of a code of conduct for the LLVM community and theassociated reporting guide.

[Renato Golin via llvm-commits]

rengolin added a subscriber: rengolin.
rengolin added a comment.

Overall, good. My two points inline: too localised list of terms, and unilateral/executive decisions.

Even on physical situations, the accused might be right, but still put in danger the accuser not just because there is tension, but because how people react can often lead to more damages than how people attack. The key here is *safety*. f we can't immediately spot the problem (no one with a knife, or visibly aggressive), we can't assume anything, and both parties need to be separated, not necessarily kicked/banned. None of that can happen electronically, and the emotions build a lot slower and in a less uncontrolled way.

I know this is specifics and don't belong to this document, but it's understanding the specifics that we'll get the document right.

For physical situations, the document is appropriate. For electronic situations, the reporting guide's execution code is highly inappropriate.

cheers,
--renato


================
Comment at: docs/CodeOfConduct.rst:38
@@ +37,3 @@
+  orientation, gender identity and expression, age, size, family status,
+  political belief, religion or lack thereof, and mental and physical ability.
+
----------------
This list is too long and American centred. You're trying to include nomenclature that only makes sense in one country, to include more differences in that region and ignoring the differences in other regions. This can be seen as derogatory in itself, especially by the people not included in that list.

If you want to include specific classifications to help people feel included, you'll have to include them *all*. That'll warrant a search on every culture that LLVM has physical and electronic reach and what are their specific concerns.

The sensible alternative is to list the basic ones. The *key* here is in the text:

    This includes, but is not limited to

and also...

    This isn’t an exhaustive list of things that you can’t do. Rather, take it in the spirit in which it’s intended - a guide to make it easier to communicate and participate in the community.

    If you have questions, please feel free to contact the LLVM Foundation Code of ​Conduct Advisory Committee

My proposal:

    This includes, but is not limited to members of any ethnicity, gender, nationality, social status, personal choices, sexuality, religion, age or disability.

I also agree with Philip that blockquote will look better. Maybe bullet points like you have below for the behaviours.

================
Comment at: docs/ReportingGuide.rst:25
@@ +24,3 @@
+reach out to any of the event organizers or staff to report it. If you cannot
+find one of the organizers, the hotel staff can locate one for you. We will
+also post detailed contact information for specific events as part of each
----------------
    s/hotel/venue/

Not all meetings are at hotels. :)

================
Comment at: docs/ReportingGuide.rst:47
@@ +46,3 @@
+
+The advisory committee will immediately meet to review the incident and
+determine:
----------------
Immediately is a strong word, and mostly applies to physical gatherings. I don't think you want to give the impression that there will be always someone on the reporter's time zone.

================
Comment at: docs/ReportingGuide.rst:62
@@ +61,3 @@
+Once the advisory committee has a complete account of the events they will make
+a decision as to how to respond. Responses may include:
+
----------------
How can you possibly have a *complete* account on what happened if you don't take the accused's view?

================
Comment at: docs/ReportingGuide.rst:90
@@ +89,3 @@
+of the working group, contact the LLVM Foundation board at board at llvm.org with
+your appeal and the board will review the case.
+
----------------
I vehemently disagree with this for all but physical encounters. I believe every decision should allow being contested, and I also believe that others may be called by the accused to testify. If we're willing to resolve conflict, we either do it right, or we don't do at all.

This is the wording that is putting a lot of people on edge. There is ample scope for an unilateral, executive and final decision to be taken against people that cannot defend themselves because there is mechanism for them to do so. We have to fix both both problems:

1. Guarantee that the accused will have his/her view considered with the same weight as the accuser.

2. Guarantee that any decision can be contested by adding new information, or points of view.

The former is the only rational choice in a just society. The latter becomes harder to abuse as time (and repeat offences) go by, so it will naturally curb abuse on the side of the accused.


http://reviews.llvm.org/D13741