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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/17/2017 12:16 AM, Mehdi Amini via
lldb-dev wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:24ED4325-2585-439E-9F32-DE6D8C0F6285@apple.com"
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<span id="docs-internal-guid-cb8c6354-4ab6-c0ce-b1f8-a22019242fdc"
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<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Hello all,</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">GSOC is around the corner, and the LLVM projects plans to participate again this year. For those who don’t know about GSOC, students are proposing a project that they will work on for 3 months. Amongst other, one goal for LLVM is to mentor students to become good developers and also contributors to the LLVM project (or user/advocate of LLVM for building other cool projects).</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">A key part of the process is about how do we select the projects. The way we’ve done it last year, is that the volunteer mentors shared an email thread and ultimately each one individually ranked the projects. We kept the average grading for each project to ranked them overall.</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class=""> In order to make the process more transparent to student applicants, we want to formalize and announce the criteria for ranking and selection project.</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">The purpose of this email is to gather community feedback about the criterion that mentors should apply when ranking projects, for example:</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">- Should we favor a student which has past contributions to LLVM compared to a newcomer? Is it more important or as equally important as the quality of the proposal?</span></div>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
I think that the quality of the proposal is the most important
thing, however, we should be realistic about the amount of time it
will take to bring a newcomer up to speed on our coding conventions,
quality standards, review process, etc. and factor that into the
decision-making process.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:24ED4325-2585-439E-9F32-DE6D8C0F6285@apple.com"
type="cite"><span
id="docs-internal-guid-cb8c6354-4ab6-c0ce-b1f8-a22019242fdc"
class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">- How should we rank (if any) “research or unbounded projects” vs “project with an immediate application”? Should we strive to keep a balance?</span></div>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
Given the short time period involved, I favor projects of more
immediate utility. This does not mean that there can't be
interesting open questions, but in our judgment, these should be
answerable in a matter of weeks (i.e. choosing between clear
alternatives, understood tuning parameters, and the like).<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:24ED4325-2585-439E-9F32-DE6D8C0F6285@apple.com"
type="cite"><span
id="docs-internal-guid-cb8c6354-4ab6-c0ce-b1f8-a22019242fdc"
class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">- What about “projects that touch LLVM/Clang/…” vs “projects that are building something on top of LLVM”? (For example this project was first proposed to be selected by LLVM before being rejected and finally picked by the Julia project directly: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2016/projects/6197080536121344/" class="">https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/archive/2016/projects/6197080536121344/</a> )?</span></div>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
I think we need to base this on the overall benefit to the
community. If working on a project built on top of LLVM will bring
additional users, end up making LLVM more robust, etc. then there
might be significant anticipated value. That having been said, in
practice, justifying this value will probably be more difficult than
for a project contributing to LLVM, Clang, etc.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:24ED4325-2585-439E-9F32-DE6D8C0F6285@apple.com"
type="cite"><span
id="docs-internal-guid-cb8c6354-4ab6-c0ce-b1f8-a22019242fdc"
class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">- Should we ask that the work is done upstream all along? In the past there have been project developed on GitHub outside the community that have never been merged. The LLVM developer policy has a full section insisting on incremental development ( <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://llvm.org/docs/DeveloperPolicy.html#incremental-development" class="">http://llvm.org/docs/DeveloperPolicy.html#incremental-development</a> ).</span></div>
</span></blockquote>
<br>
I think we should insist on incremental upstream development.<br>
<br>
Thanks again,<br>
Hal<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:24ED4325-2585-439E-9F32-DE6D8C0F6285@apple.com"
type="cite"><span
id="docs-internal-guid-cb8c6354-4ab6-c0ce-b1f8-a22019242fdc"
class=""><br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Hopefully we should be able to provide a set of guidelines to student that would help them fill the best application, and avoid unfortunate surprise at the end of the process.</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">We should have this discussion before receiving the projects proposals, which opens on 2/28.</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Best,</span></div>
<br class="">
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">-- </span></div>
<div style="line-height: 1.38; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom:
0pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">Mehdi</span></div>
<div class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;" class="">
</span></div>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Hal Finkel
Lead, Compiler Technology and Programming Languages
Leadership Computing Facility
Argonne National Laboratory</pre>
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