<div dir="ltr">Yeah given all this I'm not sure we buy anything on the Linux side by keeping it in.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 6:55 PM, Zachary Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">That was actually one of the main questions I wanted answered: <b>Who is using them?</b> If the answer is truly nobody, which I kind of suspected, then I don't think there's any harm in removing this optimization from the linux side.</div>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Enrico Granata <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:egranata@apple.com" target="_blank">egranata@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>I don’t know if anyone is actually relying on the plugin feature at this point</div>
<div><br></div><div>I believe when I first wrote it it was meant to allow people to write LLDB commands using C/C++ libraries that they already had available (e.g. for purposes like data analysis)</div><div>I also believe it didn’t find practical usage, and that it is also not documented anywhere (except looking at source code, that is!) - the One True Way (TM) these days is to use Python commands</div>
<div><br></div><div>Ideally, I have always been hoping to extend this to also allow loading other kind of plugin entities (data formatters, for instance - but if one were to dream big, also frame/thread format keywords), but never gotten around to it</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>tl;dr</b> I don’t think anyone is actually using these plugins, would not want them to be removed though, because I have plans for their future evolution</div><div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Aug 26, 2014, at 5:09 PM, Zachary Turner <<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr">I think my understanding of what it does is correct, but maybe Greg or someone can confirm. Basically, it tries to dlopen() the module at the path specified, and then search for the symbols LLDBPluginInitialize and LLDBPluginTerminate. If it finds them, it calls them. If it doesn't, the plugin load fails. According to the documentation of dladdr(), it appears that the process for locating this symbol involves first searching the module specified in the argument to dlopen(), and then searching any dependent modules. If it is found in any of these, it succeeds. This optimization (using RTLD_FIRST and the filename comparison), causes this search to fail if the symbol is found in a dependent module, but not the original module. <div>
<br></div><div>I will try to verify that this is correct with someone who knows more than me about Linux, Mac, and dynamic linking on these platforms, but if correct then it doesn't seem like there is any risk to removing this. That said, I'm interested in who is actually use these plugins. The best way to find out if it's going to break something is to talk to the people who depend on this code.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Todd Fiala <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tfiala@google.com" target="_blank">tfiala@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Ah ok.<div><br></div><div>It's worth figuring out what it does (really) before we consider removing it.</div>
<div><br></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:53 PM, Zachary Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">That part is a good question, which I don't totally understand. There's a function Debugger::LoadPlugin() though, which accepts a path to a plugin to load. It's called there. This also appears to be exposed through the "plugin load" command.</div>
<div><div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Todd Fiala <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tfiala@google.com" target="_blank">tfiala@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I guess the thing to do is make sure we're certain we understand the behavior, which is perhaps best captured in a test. (i.e. test it with the RTLD_FIRST behavior where it does something, then verify it does something different without the flag. Then, once we agree it is not useful behavior for us, look at removing it).<div>
<br></div><div>By valid plugin, you're referring to shared libraries, right? (What plugins are we referring to here, at what load point?)</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Zachary Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Just as a counterpoint, unless I'm misunderstanding this code, I don't see it actually having a noticeable impact on stability. The search limiting will only be a factor in a case where you attempt to load something that *isn't a valid plugin*. It's already an error path. In fact, this code worked fine before the change was made, and was only made to imitate what appears to have been an optimization that was Mac-specific. The change for Mac doesn't seem to have been strictly necessary either, but just an optimization. It's actually not an optimization for Linux, because the dynamic loader will still search every module on linux, it will just fail anyway.</div>
<div><div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:21 PM, Todd Fiala <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tfiala@google.com" target="_blank">tfiala@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Probably the way I'd look at this right now is that support in Linux is a bit dicey and we're doing our best to stabilize (starting with single path for remote/local debugging, and making that stable and fast). In an effort to stabilize, I'd prefer to limit how much code change we do on the Linux end until we have a more stable product.<div>
<br></div><div>So while we could potentially take that out, I'd rather avoid making changes just because it might be simpler, as it might also add yet another error scenario on the Linux side. Right now I value similarity to MacOSX execution over code reduction. Once we're a lot more stable on the Linux side, I'd be much more interested in revisiting with some actual use cases to see diffs in performance and scope of usage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Just my 2 cents...</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Zachary Turner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr">The review is up on the LLVM side. One point which was raised, and which I agree with, is that the presence of the string makes the class much heavier. This string is only needed to mimic MacOSX's RTLD_FIRST behavior on other posix platforms. However, going back through the history of when this was added, I never actually saw a use case from anyone saying "we *need* this on Linux". See the full original thread at [1]. But the TL;DR is that the flag is nice to have on MacOSX, and the filename comparison was added to Linux to maintain parity. <div>
<br></div><div>If nobody actually knows of a specific example of why this is necessary on Linux, can we just remove this behavior on Linux? My understanding is that the only thing which will change by removing this for Linux is the following: Imagine a plugin X is loaded, and X has a library dependency on Y and Z. X doesn't contain the plugin Initialize or Terminate symbol, but Y or Z does. With the filename comparison code, LoadPlugin would fail, and without it, it would succeed and use the symbol found in Y or Z. I can understand that with the comparison the algorithm is a bit better, but it seems such an extremely unusual edge case that I don't think it's a big deal to remove it from the Linux side.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thoughts?<br><div><br></div><div>[1] - <a href="http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.lldb.devel/300/focus=302" target="_blank">http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.lldb.devel/300/focus=302</a></div>
</div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Greg Clayton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gclayton@apple.com" target="_blank">gclayton@apple.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Sounds good to me. Hopefully if they don't want that they might accept an extra boolean argument that can specify to only look in the current shared library and then we can switch over to using LLVM's DynamicLibrary.<br>
<div><div><br>
> On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Zachary Turner <<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> This seems like the only case we ever want, so I'm going to post a patch to LLVM's DynamicLibrary class to use RTLD_FIRST on Apple, and a similar method of checking the module filespec on other platforms, and see if they accept it. If so, I will convert our Plugin code to use LLVM's DynamicLibrary and then delete our DynamicLibrary<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Greg Clayton <<a href="mailto:gclayton@apple.com" target="_blank">gclayton@apple.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> > On Aug 21, 2014, at 3:31 PM, Zachary Turner <<a href="mailto:zturner@google.com" target="_blank">zturner@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > Can someone explain this flag to me?<br>
><br>
> It says "only look in this binary, don't look in any others. We are looking for a plug-in initialization function and we don't want to get one back from another dylib.<br>
><br>
> As Enrico said, the email from a while back details this:<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.lldb.devel/305" target="_blank">http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.lldb.devel/305</a><br>
><br>
> > I've read the documentation, but it's still not clear to me. If you ask dlsym() to search some module X, why would it ever search modules other than X?<br>
><br>
> I don't know but it does.<br>
><br>
> ><br>
> > The reason I ask about this is that llvm support library already has a DynamicLibrary class whose purpose almost exactly matches what we're using the Host::DynamicLibrary related functions for. However, it doesn't use the RTLD_FIRST flag, and so I'm not sure what the implications are of us using it and deleting our own DynamicLibrary code.<br>
><br>
> It would be nice if we could specify this flag so we either find the symbol from libx.dylib or we don't. We don't want to find the symbol in liby.dylib and call it in our case.<br>
><br>
<br>
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