<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Why not? What situation are you trying to avoid?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don’t see a problem with the godbolt link; is your concern simply that you think -ffp-contract=fast should fuse a super-set of what is done by =on, or is there something else?<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If anything, preserving FMA formation at O0 _helps_ debuggability, because it means that numerical behavior is more likely to match what a user observed at Os, allowing them to debug the problem.<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 13, 2020, at 8:32 PM, Kaylor, Andrew <<a href="mailto:andrew.kaylor@intel.com" class="">andrew.kaylor@intel.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">That’s certainly a reasonable position, but it isn’t without problems. For instance:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://godbolt.org/z/9JtoPt" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://godbolt.org/z/9JtoPt</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In this case, “-O0 -ffp-contract=on -march=haswell” results in an FMA instruction but “-O0 -ffp-contract=fast -march=haswell” does not.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I’m not opposed to allowing the explicit use of -ffp-contract=on to lead clang to generate a call to llvm.fmuladd, but I don’t think that should happen by default at -O0.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">-Andy<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:scanon@apple.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scanon@apple.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:scanon@apple.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scanon@apple.com</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 13, 2020 5:17 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Kaylor, Andrew <<a href="mailto:andrew.kaylor@intel.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">andrew.kaylor@intel.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [cfe-dev] fp-contract at -O0<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">-O0 does not mean “do not optimize”. It means "Reduce compilation time and make debugging produce the expected results” (quoting the GCC manual, but it applies equally to clang).<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From my perspective, this is absolutely the expected behavior.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">– Steve<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On Feb 13, 2020, at 7:30 PM, Kaylor, Andrew via cfe-dev <<a href="mailto:cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Hi everyone,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Melanie Blower recently submitted a change that was intended to make the default set of floating point options in clang be consistent with the options that would be set by the -ffp-model=precise umbrella option. The only change needed was to make the default for fp-contract “on” instead of “off”. While not a trivial change, we thought this was reasonable, since fp-contract=on only allows contraction that is allowed by the language standard. Unfortunately, this change unleashed a surprising number of problems.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The most surprising problem, to me at least, was that this change caused FMA instructions to be generated at -O0.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">There are a couple of things that need to be sorted out here, but I’d like to start with the -O0 behavior. Consider the following scenario, which was possible even before the recent change:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--------<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">test.c<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--------<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">double f(double a, double b, double c) {<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> return a * b + c;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">}<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--------<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">clang -c -O0 -ffp-contract=on test.c<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">--------<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Since clang 5.0 this has produced a call to llvm.fmuladd, which for targets that support FMA will generally result in an FMA instruction. Arguably this is what the user asked for, since they explicitly enabled fp-contract. On the other hand, it is also an optimization, which they said they did not want. As a point of comparison, specifying -ffast-math will cause the front end to attach the “fast” flag to math operations (which also allows contraction), but will not lead to FMA formation.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">What should we do with this? I see two possible solutions:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">1. The driver should not pass the -ffp-contract=on flag by default at -O0 (still allows fmuladd formation if the user specifies -ffp-contract=on)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">2. The front end should not form the llvm.fmuladd intrinsic at -O0<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The second option seems preferable to me, but I don’t know how unnatural it might be for the front end to respond to optimization level.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Apart from the -O0 dilemma, the change in default fp-contract behavior seems to have led to other problems. It introduced some performance regressions in LNT on x86 and some accuracy-related test failures on PowerPC. There are likely other issues that I just haven’t heard about. So, I guess we should talk about whether we really want to enable this by default when optimizations are enabled. I don’t know anything about the PowerPC issues. I looked at the top x86 performance regression and it seems that the introduction of the fmuladd intrinsic changed the decision of the loop unroller (the key loop is unrolled by 8 instead of 4). I’m inclined to regard that as a fluke of the test case or possibly a problem in the loop unroller, but I wouldn’t see it as a reason to prefer to disable FP contraction.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">FWIW, the fp-model option was intended to provide the same functionality as the /fp option in the MSVC compiler. The MSVC /fp:precise option enables FP contraction.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Input here would be appreciated.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Andy<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">cfe-dev mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">cfe-dev@lists.llvm.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span><a href="https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(149, 79, 114);" class="">https://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cfe-dev</span></a></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>