<div dir="ltr">Probably because it works for them. Company I work for is only interested in Windows and as such is happy to write code in any dialect of C++ that msvc supports, including extensions like "for each" loop, __super, abstract, etc.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Richard Gorton <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rcgorton@cog-e.com" target="_blank">rcgorton@cog-e.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
"Not that broken".<br>
Really? What a truly self-condemning statement.<br>
<br>
Why do developers make such ridiculous statements about broken
tools?<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 8/23/2014 5:52 PM, DeadMG wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">That feature list is a hypothetical.
Hypothetically, VS2012 CTP supported variadics, but they were
unusably broken. I've yet to see how buggy it is. However, the
fact that there have been three CTPs for VS "14" rather than
just one does make me feel better about the chances.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 23 August 2014 22:49, Yaron Keren <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:yaron.keren@gmail.com" target="_blank">yaron.keren@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="rtl">
<div dir="ltr">After trying many IDEs on both Linux and
Windows my own preference is Visual Studio. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">As for the C++ support, MS are doing much
better than before few years when they were not paying
much attention. </div>
<div dir="ltr">See this new blog post</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"> <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/08/21/c-11-14-features-in-visual-studio-14-ctp3.aspx" target="_blank">http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vcblog/archive/2014/08/21/c-11-14-features-in-visual-studio-14-ctp3.aspx</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Visual C++ 2013 is not up to clang or gcc
conformance level, but not that broken.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">clang-cl would be great *except* it knows
how to produce debug lines (codeview) but not full debug
information (pdb files), so no real debugging. That's a
real showstopper.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Yaron<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">2014-08-23 23:55 GMT+03:00 DeadMG <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wolfeinstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">wolfeinstein@gmail.com</a>></span>:</div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>MSVC survives because there's no
effective competition- it's like
communications providers in the United
States or political parties in China. The
alternatives like GCC have no decent
development environments for them, and Clang
has the bonus of not being mature w.r.t.
things like Standard libraries. The reality
is, there's nowhere to go *but* MSVC. This
stuff is the major reason why I'd positively
love clang-cl. As soon as that is done, then
support for cl can probably be entirely
dropped and the state of the available
compilers will be drastically improved.<br>
<br>
</div>
Microsoft *is* issuing more and more
out-of-band bugfix updates. But the current
state for VS2013 is still that most bugfixes
will hit in VS "14" (currently projected for
2015).<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 23 August 2014
21:24, Renato Golin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:renato.golin@linaro.org" target="_blank">renato.golin@linaro.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>On 22 August 2014 20:18, Óscar
Fuentes <<a href="mailto:ofv@wanadoo.es" target="_blank">ofv@wanadoo.es</a>>
wrote:<br>
> I second this. My experience
with VS is that new features are
usually<br>
> broken if you go beyond the
simple cases. And the roadmaps have
little<br>
> credibility, based on a
continuous flow of disappointments
since...<br>
> forever.<br>
<br>
</div>
Is there any interest from Microsoft
to actually fix those problems,<br>
or is that their policy that what's
there is there? The latter seems<br>
to be their policy on other products,
and for what I know, VS too. I<br>
ask that because holding on partial
and broken support that will never<br>
be fixed or completed is kind of
backwards.<br>
<br>
I'm not a Windows guy, but I wonder
why so many people use MSVC if the<br>
support is so patchy and hopeless as
most people seem to imply. Also,<br>
compiling Clang with MSVC and making
Clang MSVC compatible are two<br>
completely different things. A
commercial toolchain based on MSVC<br>
compatibility doesn't necessarily need
to be compiled with MSVC<br>
itself.<br>
<br>
Or maybe the Windows environment is so
alien that I'm basing my points<br>
on completely unreasonable
assumptions...<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
-renato<br>
<div>
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