<div dir="rtl"><div dir="ltr">While building llvm/clang from sources is entirely feasible, it requires setting up a non-trivial build environment, especially on Windows. The recently posted instructions setting up a windows builder summarize the process very well and show what's involved. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If we'd like to make clang a popular compiler (as it should!) this process in unreasonable. Someone wishing to just use clang wants a simple one-click solution and not a process setting it up. If not clang, he'll find his one click solution either with Visual C++ Express free edition or one of the MingW distributions.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The standard is to have a big DOWNLOAD button featured on the front page. This leads directly to the Windows installer (one-click!) or at most to a list of the last stable version pre-built binaries with the Windows as the default.</div>
<div dir="ltr">Why Windows? because that's what Windows users are expecting. </div><div dir="ltr">In other OS downloading sources and configure/make is reasonable as 1) the users are usually more knowledgeable and 2) the build environment is mostly (all?) ready. Not so with Windows. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The downloading process should be EZ : mindless and requires as few clicks as possible. Some practical examples are:</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/" target="_blank">http://www.eclipse.org/</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://netbeans.org/" target="_blank">https://netbeans.org/</a><br></div>
<div dir="ltr"><a href="https://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwbuilds/" target="_blank">https://sourceforge.net/projects/mingwbuilds/</a><br>
</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">additional non-links should lead to development (ToT) pre-built binaries, web browsable sources and svn/git instructions. It is also be nice to have downloadable sources as tar/zip such as available on some sites as for some users installing svn/git may be a showstopper.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Specifically, on the current llvm site, the download link should be more prominent. It should list the pre-built binaries at first. It should link to the Windows pre-built binaries which currently are well hidden on the alpha site. Then it should also link to ToT ("Development") binaries and only finally to source codes and build instructions.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Yaron<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">2013/11/13 Chris Lattner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:clattner@apple.com" target="_blank">clattner@apple.com</a>></span></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>On Nov 12, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Sean Silva <<a href="mailto:silvas@purdue.edu" target="_blank">silvas@purdue.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>I think that Alp made a really good point: "Clang" is a developer-facing product that a lot more developers interact with than compiler engineers. <a href="http://llvm.org/" target="_blank">llvm.org</a> and even <a href="http://clang.llvm.org/" target="_blank">clang.llvm.org</a> are really focused on bringing people into the open source community and serving us compiler hackers, but it does a really poor job serving users that just want to use a compiler and look up a few options or language extensions.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>When I reorganized the clang docs front page, I was actually amazed at how things fell out. We actually have a quite nice slice of docs that broadly fall under the category "Using Clang as a Compiler" <<a href="http://clang.llvm.org/docs/#using-clang-as-a-compiler" target="_blank">http://clang.llvm.org/docs/#using-clang-as-a-compiler</a>>, and I made sure to put those front and center.<br>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Yeah, that is great. It would also be interesting to have a blogroll (or something) on it talking about various people using the compiler, tips and tricks, etc.</div>
<div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Oh, and the main web page could really use an update, being almost unmodified since its inception.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yeah it would be nice to have a web site that looks like it was developed by a web designer, not a compiler hacker :) Our dragon logo is awesome, how did that come about? Maybe we could emulate that process to net a fresh fancy webpage. (I'm assuming that the dragon logo wasn't designed by a compiler hacker; if it was, then this is me bowing to their skill).</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>The dragon came about when Apple paid a 3rd party icon design company to design it for LLVM. I gave them the guidance of "a high tech dragon" and a graphics artist did magic :-)</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br>In many ways, this is the same problem that projects like Eclipse have. Since eclipse is both a community and an IDE, the main "<a href="http://www.eclipse.org/" target="_blank">http://www.eclipse.org</a>" web site is pretty useless for people who just want a Java IDE. I'm not finding any great examples of open source projects "doing it right", but <a href="http://linux.com/" target="_blank">linux.com</a> for example is targeted as users and advocates of the linux OS, not at kernel hackers.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think the "normal" way to do it these days (for better or for worse) is for a project's home page to be entirely "non-developer-centric", but have a "github" ribbon/button that developers know to look for.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>Right, it would make sense to keep <a href="http://clang.llvm.org" target="_blank">clang.llvm.org</a> as the compiler hackers kingdom. There could be a prominent link from <a href="http://clang.org" target="_blank">clang.org</a> that points to it.</div>
<div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>I think it could be really great to have a user-centric landing page, and if we do that, making <a href="http://clang.org/" target="_blank">clang.org</a> be it would be truly great.</div>
</blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>Agreed. That sounds like a perfect use for the domain.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div></div><div>What do you think Alp? Does this make sense to you? I think this aligns with (my understanding of) your intended purpose for the domain, and would be fantastic for the project.</div>
<span><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Chris</div><br></font></span></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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